We look at how the Church of Wells cult recruits members into its fold, and the almost total emotional control the three ‘elders’ have over the group.
Church of Wells “brothers.” The group is heavily male-dominated.
WELLS, Texas — The Church of Wells, located in and around Wells, Texas, 17 miles northwest of Lufkin, separates itself from the world because of the evil it sees in the larger culture. But the Church of Wells itself is the source of an evil much worse than what it preaches against and separates itself from. Leaders of the Church of Wells — called “elders” though all three are in their twenties — systematically destroy the freedom of mind, conscience, and volition of their members.
On August 11, I wrote about the death of a baby born to a couple who are members of the Church of Wells [“Child murder in Texas” by Lamar Hankins, The Rag Blog, Aug. 11, 2014]. The infant, Faith Shalom Pursley, was born with a routinely treatable birth defect, but received no medical care because her parents and at least one of the Church of Wells “elders,” Ryan Ringnald, decided to deny the baby medical care in favor of praying that she would get well and, after she died, praying for her resurrection for15 hours before reporting her death.
Here, I explore the culture of the group, beginning with its recruiting process, based on what I have seen and what witnesses have reported to me.
To understand how the ‘elders’ control the group’s members, I made a second three-day trip to Cherokee County.
To understand how the “elders” control the group’s members, I made a second three-day trip to Cherokee County early in September to gather information on the group and its businesses. Since then, I have received numerous emails and phone calls from witnesses and met with others to learn more about the methods the “elders” use to control the behavior, emotions, and thinking of members, beginning during the recruitment of members.
Usually, recruiters draw people into the group. All of the “elders” (Sean Morris, Ryan Ringnald, Jacob Gardner) engage in recruiting, as do Rick Trudeau (a deacon), William Pierce, Cory McLaughlin, Mosao Gontheir, Jesse Morris (a deacon, brother to Sean Morris and cousin to Cory McLaughlin), Daniel Pursley, Tanner Trudeau (brother to Rick Trudeau), Mark de Rouville (who was a Navy Seal for a brief period), and Jordan Fraker.
These people may also be used to enforce discipline among group members or “protect” members from their families. Chris Faulkner was a recruiter until he had a conflict with the “elders” and left the group. There are other recruiters whose full names or identities I do not know at this time.
The recruiters often target a person experiencing confusion about the purpose of life, someone who is theologically or religiously confused, someone who is involved or experimenting with evangelicalism, or someone looking for greater meaning in life, what many would call a seeker.
Case study of a Church of Wells recruit
The following case study illustrates what it is like for many who are recruited into the Church of Wells. I use the term “case study” loosely. Although all the experiences are based on those of real people, I have altered identifying details and names to protect members, former members, and their families.
Geoffrey was 23 years old, a graduate of Southern Methodist University in Dallas, where he graduated with honors with a degree in Environmental Engineering and found a welcome religious home with the members of the Reformed Christian Fellowship. He spent two summers in an internship with an environmental law firm in Washington state, focusing on the sustainable harvesting of old-growth forests. But he was so close to his friends at the First Baptist Church of McKinney, Texas, that he turned down an excellent job offer with the Oregon Forest Resources Institute in Portland.
His Baptist friends drew Geoffrey into active evangelism work, taking the Gospel to youths in the Dallas area. He took an entry level position with the City of Dallas Parks and Recreation Department, protecting urban vegetation threatened by out-of-control growth in the Metroplex. In spring 2014, with little warning to his parents, who lived in McKinney, Geoffrey quit his job and headed to Wells to join the 110 or so members of the Church of Wells.
Geoffrey’s move happened so quickly that his parents had no time to react or even begin to understand what had happened to their son.
Geoffrey’s move happened so quickly that his parents had no time to react or even begin to understand what had happened to their son, who had much potential in the environmental field.
Through his youth group at their Baptist church, one of the recruiters for the Church of Wells had approached Geoffrey, telling him about this small evangelical church, whose leaders believe they are a remnant of the early Christian church that sprang up after the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
After their initial meeting, the Church of Wells recruiters continued their personal contacts with Geoffrey through Facebook, Skype, email, and cell phone. The Church of Wells maintains a sophisticated on-line presence, fueled by a bank of computers. The computers once were in the house provided by Cindy Williams, mother-in-law to Cory McLaughlin, before she sold it to the local school district, which tore it down to erect a parking lot. There are unconfirmed reports that the computers are now housed in a facility in Grand Prairie, Texas.
After Geoffrey left for deep East Texas to join the Church of Wells, his parents had little contact with him. He refused to speak with them about their religious views. Although their religious views were Southern Baptist conservative, the “elders” of the Church of Wells convinced Geoffrey that his parents’ views were blasphemous. Their beliefs, according to the “elders,” required him to cease all contact with his parents or, at least, minimize the contacts.
Like many parents of Church of Wells recruits, Geoffrey’s parents reacted negatively to essentially being called apostates, but they kept their negative views within their family. While their religious beliefs were seriously and prayerfully considered, not arrived at lightly, they were denigrated by the “elders.”
Parental apostasy
Eyewitnesses have commented that when parental apostasy is drilled into a person night and day, when one is harangued repeatedly, and when the very words of Jesus (taken out of any meaningful context) are used against the parents, little true understanding or common ground can be reached. The “elders” frequently quote this passage:
“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea and his owne life also, hee cannot be my disciple.” — 1611 King James Bible, Luke 14:26
The literalist “elders” claim that this verse means that any parent who does not believe exactly as they believe must be hated, despised, and cut off. They are unwilling to recognize that these words are intended to emphasize that Jesus must be the most important entity in one’s life, above all else, even parents. However, the words do not mean that parents are to be excluded or hated on a personal level. Jesus consorted with prostitutes and lepers, unbelievers and those desiring to be holy. But the Church of Wells “elders” and their followers ignore His example.
The “elders” see the family as a potential idol — something a member may wrongly hold more important, or just as important, as their relationship with Jesus. For the “elders,” nothing can be more important than one’s relationship with Jesus — not job, worldly possessions, spouses, children, siblings, money, or the pursuit of money, even one’s own life.
The ‘elders’ do not recognize context or nuance or hyperbole unless it suits their purposes.
The “elders” do not recognize context or nuance or hyperbole unless it suits their purposes. In this passage from Luke, Jesus was speaking to a large group of people who had been following him around, being fed, seeing miracles performed, and being taught Jesus’s apocalyptic message about the coming Kingdom of God — a Kingdom that Jesus said would come during the lives of some of those who heard him speak. Jesus wanted the throngs to understand that the cost of discipleship was steep. It required nothing less than putting him first, with all else secondary.
The “elders” don’t get the secondary part. If they are not satisfied with the salvation of any person in a member’s family, that person must not have a relationship with the member (unless the family member is providing financial support to the group, as has Moses David, Preethi Morris’s father; Cindy Williams, the mother of Ashley McLaughlin, who is no longer with the group; and a few other parents of members). Geoffrey was caught in this trap. To be a full-fledged member of the Church of Wells, he had to focus on the work of the Church of Wells and turn away from his family.
Somehow, no one within the group has noticed that Jesus had nothing to say about the Church of Wells. Apparently, the Church of Wells has become an idol for the “elders” and its members. But we musn’t think too much about such things. In fact, it is better not to think at all. The “elders” supply all that Geoffrey or any other member needs to know.
Like all new recruits, Geoffrey was required to take all of his savings and give it to the Church of Wells.
Like all new recruits to the Church of Wells, Geoffrey was required to take all of his savings from his summer jobs and his brief work for the City of Dallas — some $21,000 — and give it to the Church of Wells, along with his old Ford, television, music system, furniture, and cell phone. Leaders in the group helped him clear all of his possessions out of his apartment and carted them to Wells for use by the group, as the “elders” determined, under the direction of God. What they couldn’t use, or other members of the group couldn’t use, was sold or traded outside the group. Pawnbrokers in Lufkin must be doing well on the loot that the “elders” (and God) have no use for.
The vetting of Geoffrey’s parents
Shortly after Geoffrey arrived in Wells, his parents went there to meet with him and the “elders,” intent on convincing Geoffrey that this group was nothing but a destructive cult, bent on using his money, resources, and labor to evangelize others, who would, in turn, be driven from a significant relationship with their parents. As soon as they arrived, however, they realized that disagreeing with the “elders” would not be to their benefit or the benefit of their son. Instead, they sat passively, trying to ignore the insults and religious slurs hurled at them by three unstable, obsessed young men, puffed-up by their self-appointed status as “elders.”
Catherine Grove was the object of a year-long recruitment effort. (See “Solicitation and Recruitment” section below.)
The vetting of Geoffrey’s parents by the “elders” lasted several hours. It included theological discussions, but mostly the parents were preached to in the Church of Wells style: “You’re going to hell,” “You’re not saved,” “You are wicked,” “You are wretched and evil.”
At the conclusion, their salvation was found wanting. Even though they did not condemn the group, or rail against it (the “elders” term such people “railers” — people who use coarse, harsh, and bitter words, abuse others, vilify their character, and wound their feelings — an apt description of the “elders” themselves), they were allowed only minimal contact with Geoffrey, unless they accepted all of the teachings of the “elders” and made financial contributions to their work. Geoffrey was cut off from his parents for the most part.
This was a bitter period, both for Geoffrey and for his parents. But his parents, devout evangelicals, were not interested in giving up their lives to support the ministry of the “elders,” nor were they interested in helping fulfill the megalomaniacal plans of the three masterminds of the only “true” church in Christendom. Geoffrey’s parents remain worried about his well-being. But they are more fortunate than some other parents, who have suffered job losses, health problems, and marital separations arising from the conflict engendered by the “elders” and their practices.
It is unlikely that any parents could have a fair, honest, and reasoned encounter when their child has been a total captive for two months and propagandized constantly.
Of course, it is unlikely that any parents could have a fair, honest, and reasoned encounter when their child has been a total captive for two months and propagandized constantly, and can’t escape the presence of the very people who have been conditioning his mind against the parents’ views while depriving him of adequate nutrition and sleep. Many of my sources have reported that these control techniques are employed by the “elders.”
Once recruits have bought into the views of the “elders” and received the loving attention of the other group members (a technique human trafficking and cult experts refer to as “love-bombing”) for a period of time, they believe they are indeed special in the eyes of their new group, and in the eyes of God, who has brought them to live among such loving people.
Solicitation and recruitment
In the weeks after Geoffrey’s parents were summarily sent on down Highway 69, whence they came, Geoffrey was assigned to work with Trudeau’s Tree Service (owned according to official records by Rick Trudeau), trimming and harvesting trees. In May, after Rick Trudeau acquired an old saw mill property in Alto, Texas, a nearly 17-acre tract about 15 miles from Wells, Geoffrey was assigned there to help grade and sort the timber as it was purchased from local loggers or donated to the Church of Wells for clearing the land.
Rick Trudeau acquired an old saw mill property in Alto, Texas. Photo by Lamar W. Hankins / The Rag Blog.
For his work in the businesses associated with the Church of Wells, Geoffrey is not paid a salary. He is given a pre-paid debit card each month to buy food and other incidentals he might need or want. When he reaches a competency with reciting scripture from memory and preaching, he will likely be sent out to preach in the streets while other members watch the crowds or passersby for anyone who looks approachable. When such a person appears (called a “mark” in con games), a recruiter will strike up a conversation. Sometimes email and phone contact information is shared. This exchange can begin a long process of solicitation and recruitment.
The solicitation sometimes begins in other ways. For example, Catherine Groves’ recruitment began at a conference sponsored by the respected Wycliffe Bible Translators, a non-profit group that has translated the Bible into over 2,000 languages. Unknown to Wycliffe at the time, one attendee at the conference was a recruiter for the Church of Wells, Aaron Sink. During the conference, Sink started preaching to the other conferees until he was cut off by the conference leaders. Later, Sink reached out to Catherine and gave her his email contact and a link to the Church of Wells website. This began a year-long recruitment effort to get Catherine to join the group in Wells.
Church of Wells recruiters target high school and college youth at faith-based events, youth conferences, and at Christian rap sites.
Church of Wells recruiters target high school and college youth at faith-based events, youth conferences, and at Christian rap sites. Recruiters go onto the campuses of faith-based colleges to find new contacts among the many devout Christians drawn to a faith-based education. Events sponsored by other faith-based groups are targeted by Church of Wells recruiters.
Catherine Grove at Church of Wells protest. Image from Wikimedia Commons.
In their recruiting efforts, they recently followed Paul Washer’s HeartCry Missionary Society to events in Peru and Brazil (though HeartCry has no desire to be associated with the Church of Wells), attended conferences of the anti-abortion group Abolish Human Abortion, frequented events of Teen Challenge (a drug program for youth that has been criticized for its coercive tactics and spiritual abuse), and reached out to Aryan Nation Christian identity groups. Such groups have been identified as a terrorist threat by the FBI and as a nationwide terrorist network in a RAND Corporation study.
Normally, during the period of solicitation by Church of Wells recruiters, the focus is on understanding the Bible, especially the parts about salvation, from the perspective of the “elders.” Through email, Facebook, Skype, and personal meetings, Geoffrey was wooed, pursued, and cajoled while the Church of Wells presented itself as the only true church for a true Christian who wanted real salvation.
Emotional control over members
For some, even the recruitment process can leave devastating emotional scars. Recruiting targets are told repeatedly that to reject the Church of Wells is to reject God, that God will be displeased, and He will exact revenge, even death on the person and his family.
Shame can be a powerful, painful
social emotion.
A professional in child welfare and protection from Florida provided information to me about the Church of Wells recruiting in and around the University of Central Florida (a college where Holly Pearce, wife of William Pearce, has contacts). This social worker has been counseling one client for nearly four months since the potential recruit decided not to join the group. The client continues to experience nightmares related to the claim that she has disobeyed God’s will and should be ashamed of her past life. Shame can be a powerful, painful social emotion. Others, however, have addressed their problems with the Church of Wells in different ways.
When Moses David, an Advanced Research Specialist and inventor with the 3M Corporation, found that his daughter Preethi had joined the group, he could not accept its teachings. But he came around eventually, providing a large dowry to Sean Morris (reported to be about $28,000) when Sean and Preethi married. Moses David has become a primary spokesperson for the group in the media, especially on-line, in comments to my earlier article, and on Facebook and other forums, defending Church of Wells theology and practices in every way. Through this role, he enables the destruction of the freedom of mind, conscience, and volition of the group’s members. His work is pleasing to the “elders” and he continues to have frequent contact with his beloved daughter.
Moses David with daughter Preethi.
There is no evil force worse than stripping a person of her personality, her ability to think critically, her development of conscience, and her freedom to follow her own truths down life’s path. This is a group that traffics in the lives of other human beings for its own ideological, religious, and personal purposes. The “elders” see themselves, in their words, “as Jesus.” That is, they believe they have achieved the holiness of Jesus and can communicate the will of God, which all members must follow.
Later, I will write about the laws concerning human trafficking and explore how the Church of Wells and its “elders” violate both federal and state laws, as well as international agreements related to such trafficking. According to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, human trafficking includes many of the actions of the Church of Wells, including recruitment, harboring, coercion, fraud, deception, abuse of power over another person and much more.
The one consistent feature of all that occurs within the Church of Wells is the virtually total control over members by the three ‘elders.’
But the one consistent feature of all that occurs within the Church of Wells is the virtually total control over members by the three “elders.” To refer to the “elders” as megalomaniacal doesn’t convey adequately their ability to destroy the human minds and personalities that they oversee. Although I have not met any of the “elders” (I have tried to do so, but have been rebuffed), I have talked to many people who have met and observed them, sometimes at very close range. And I have listened to their “testimonies” and sermons, and read their written commentaries. I think I have formed an accurate understanding of who they are.
When I heard an evangelical leader speak recently about a “diabolical spirit,” I immediately thought of the “elders,” especially Sean Morris, whose sermons I have endured listening to more than those of the others. Hearing one of Sean Morris’s sermons, supposedly in remembrance of the three-day old child that he and the other “elders” and the child’s parents allowed to die so that they could experiment with their powers of resurrection (as suggested by one Facebook commenter), reminded me of the tearful sanctimony of Jimmy Swaggart several years ago as he pleaded for forgiveness from his congregation and God for being caught with a prostitute in his New Orleans hotel room.
Morris felt that his transgression had nothing to do with allowing the infant to die without medical care, but that he (and the rest of his group) had too little faith that the baby would be healed or resurrected.
In spite of Sean Morris’s falsely self-effacing statement and his self-serving perversion of the truth about his wrongdoing concerning the death of Faith Pursley, the group is increasing, both through recruitment and the births of babies who automatically become recruits, without their consent or the ability to understand. In many ways, they are like the adults who join the group in Wells. They have no independent minds, consciences, or volition. And the “elders” intend to keep them that way.
Read more articles by Lamar W. Hankins on The Rag Blog.
[Rag Blog columnist Lamar W. Hankins, a former San Marcos, Texas, city attorney, also blogs at Texas Freethought Journal. This article © Texas Freethought Journal, Lamar W. Hankins.]
Mr. Hankins,
I really enjoyed reading this informative article. I am enlightened every time I hear about these evildoers. I pray that the truth will continue to arise and that this group will disintegrate and those leading will be prosecuted. Thank you for your time and all of your efforts.
P.S. I have not seen Catherine in weeks!
Dear Anonymous, I just received a message from one of the church members today that Catherine is doing well by the grace of God! I pray that she will become strong in the Lord, and will become united with her family in the peace of Christ. Love in Christ, Moses.
Whoever you are posting as “MOSES” you have ruined your credibility and reputation so whatever you say doesn’t matter. I don’t believe anything you say or give any credence to anything you say or write and
that’s a FACT
Why do church members report to you in Minnesota about Catherine? Just curious.
Suggestion: church members could call one of her sisters. Or they could post a message on any of their numerous social media pages and websites.
She could Skype. Best is if she just calls herself; she is an adult. She should have her own space and privacy and cell phone. She shouldn’t have to ask nor should she need permission.
I mean, come on, even Iraqi women have cell phones.
Dear Q, Catherine has a cellphone with her, and she is able to call her family whenever she wanted to, no one is preventing her from doing so. I am praying that this will happen soon. Love in Christ, Moses.
Why do church members report to you in Minnesota about Catherine?
no one can reach catherine or knows how to reach her. many have tried. the number doesnt work or maybe there is another number … do you have it ? having a cell phone only works if it has minutes or is activated Moses … you should know that. and why can no one call her ??? is there a Bible verse for that too … oh by the way Moses somone conveniently drove over the cell phone she took with her to wells from arkansas … shortly after she arrived … hmmmmmmmm
So she “has” a cell phone “with her” but not that she has her own cell phone.
One of two possibilities here:
1. She’s got a CoW cell phone that’s monitored, or she is monitored. She’s afraid to call because the “elders” will disapprove and it will trigger rebuke for willful sin. They told her she had to reject them and she has. If she wants to belong, she must obey them. She can choose not to obey them, but it will mean she isn’t right with God and isn’t Christ-like and isn’t saved.
2. She has a cell phone (her own or not), can use it freely as she pleases, isn’t monitored and isn’t afraid of being condemned as disobedient and sinful.
Option 2 means she is the most spoiled, self-centered, arrogant drama-queen to ever walk the planet. At the expense of, and indulged by everyone around her, including the Church of Wells elders. Her petty disregard for simple courtesy creates a firestorm of attention to herself and this group. Her selfish behaviour causes public condemnation, media attention, interviews, newspaper articles, television broadcasts, major media productions, and makes the group a subject of interest on websites like this. She even caused the head of the group’s wedding to be disrupted and brings police to the door on a regular basis. She is the sole cause of public criticism of officers and entire departments!
She selfishly disregards the best interests of the loving simple people who took her in and on whom she is financially dependent. She carelessly undermines the good will of the community they live in, causing the group to be demonized and concerns for her safety.
The group and the elders continue to indulge her wildly selfish behaviour. As easy as it would be to just call one of her sisters and explain what she’s doing, they won’t “make” her do that, nor will one of the group make a simple phone call. Instead, they risk everything for her. Eventually their businesses collapse around them, but they just lovingly allow her to do what she pleases. Because she’s saved and one of The Elect. It’s worth all this to save this one soul.
She could make a phone call, but she won’t. That’s pure selfish. A church that would tolerate this isn’t wise in its stewardship and isn’t promoting the right environment to its membership. This is pretty shabby shepherding of the flock. A congregant that would behave this way is displaying neither wisdom, nor modesty, nor Godliness.
So which is it – #1 or #2?
Moses, STOP praying and pretending and BSing, and provide PROOF that Catherine Grove is alive and well! YOU can and will be held legally culpable if ANYTHING happens to that innocent woman, so instead of passing your wealth off to your son-in-law and this insane cult, you might want to save some cash for your own legal fees. Even God, Himself, will not be able to save you from being prosecuted if anything happens to Catherine. YOU are upholding the abilities of EVIL MEN to do EVIL THINGS. God help you.
Dear We See You Through, It is a pretty bold statement to say, “Even God, Himself, will not be able to save you from being prosecuted if anything happens to Catherine.” Are you threatening me to stop praying and sharing the truth as I have discovered contrary to the lies, from being proclaimed to the innocently deceived readers of this blog? If so, I will not take your threat! My God is greater than your threats. Jesus Christ is the LORD OF ALL. Love in Christ, Moses.
Dear Q, You can ask them why this is so. I think that Catherine will be more inclined to contact her family if they did not despise her church family. Love in Christ, Moses.
Dear Q, The church members would like for Catherine to have a peaceful relationship with her family. I hope that everyone can encourage both Catherine, and her family to make this happen. Whenever I meet Catherine, I will encourage her to communicate with her family. I know the pain of not hearing from one’s daughter. Love in Christ, Moses.
Um, okay. Dear Church of Wells members in Wells, Texas:
Why do you report to Moses David in Minnesota about Catherine?
Moses David, You are unhinged from reality and the knowing of His true SACRIFICE! You speak of scriptures, laws, and of the “godly” and this pertains you as well. You have sold your child, your own daughter, to man that you believe is “godly”, what was your cost? When did you sell out? GOD HELP YOU AND CHRIST HIMSELF BE WITH YOU!!!! Please give us all the information of you and your family relocating to East Texas, please remind us of all the conversations you’ve personally had with Catherine NONE, ohh and let’s not forget those moments you had with your daughter growing up, that’s the only truth you may have to your false leading so called life. Please give scriptures to hide behind, please give the words of false prophets like “you” , “son in law” and the “elders”. So in the oh so many studies of scriptures remember: FALSE PROPHETS AND THOSE THAT LEAD MY PEOPLE ASTRAY FROM ME, SHALL SUFFER MY WRATH.
Dear Q, I don’t think they read this blog, so you should make an attempt to talk to them directly. Love in Christ, Moses.
Many people have, Moses. They don’t respond to emails. They don’t post or respond to comments on their various “blogs.” There are five, in addition to a web contact form and email addresses.
Regardless, the question was put to you.
Moses,
Why are you so familiar with the word “threat”? Seems that the cult that you are a part of enjoys threatening people by professing that they will “go to hell” for not believing what they preach or for questioning things that SHOULD be questioned such as the negligent death of an innocent newborn baby, or the disappearance of Catherine Grove.(Nobody who TRULY cares about her has heard from her in a VERY long time, even after numerous requests.) Do you believe that wishing someone to die on the spot is not something that should be considered a “threat”? Quite sensitive now, aren’t you, Moses…Just because you sign everything, “Love in Christ”, does not mean that Christ will protect you from the evil that you are defending here on earth. No “threats” intended, Moses. Only facts…We can definitely see your quandary, Mr. Moses. You have to go along with everything your cult “elders” teach, or you too, will lose your precious daughter. At least the other parents of children who have been sucked in to this cult have not sold out to them in the way that you so blatantly have. Just be prepared to face any legal ramifications of behaving like a sheeple when the facts of how this cult treats other human beings, including babies, comes in to the light.
Dear We See Through You, Catherine might be more inclined to those who supposed love her do not hate her family in Christ, who have been a blessing to her. I am praying that this will happen soon according to God’s will. Love in Christ, Moses.
Don’t be silly, of course they do. Just like they read the Pray For Catherine Grove facebook and any other forums out there. We know they do. They have spoken about it.
Moses,
Your circular arguments are exhausting but you learned that tactic from the cow, did you not? So you are saying that Catherine’s parents should be a coward like you in order to have contact with their own beloved daughter? How is THAT working for the core of your True soul, Moses?
Why do you say “Catherine” is not strong in the Lord ?
I’m so thankful to you Mr Hankins…so thankful! Please keep on keeping on!
Great work…Again! Learning new things each time. Thank you!
Dear Lorayne, Please do not reject the Word of God that your daughter wants to share with you. Taste and see that the Lord is good. Please do not reject her because of the strong faith that God has gifted her with! Her husband told me that he is always amazed at the consistent Godliness your daughter demonstrates to him. He is blessed to have your daughter as his wife! I am blessed to meet her as well. Love in Christ, Moses
Nobody’s rejecting their kids, Moses. You’ve got that all wrong.
Dear Q, That is what their children have shared with me. Love in Christ, Moses.
That is the doctrine they’ve been taught to say by the “elders.”
The only way you can know parents reject children, is when parents tell you this is so.
Otherwise, it’s just a question – have I been rejected by my parents? – rather than a fact.
Your such a fake Moses nobody believes anything you say. How do you know anybody is rejecting anything. You know its a sin to lie and whoever you are posting as Moses is making up lies about people it is called false information. You should repent Moses or whoever this is posting.
It is presumptuous and arrogant of you to make the statements you have. What did you base your judgment of me on? What information do you feel you have that would grant you the authority to say the things you did about me, personally?
You have called me out in a public forum about my faith, where I stand with God and said I have rejected my daughter. You do not know me or anything about me. You said all these things about me and my family solely from the fact my name on this screen is Lorayne? Do you not see the problem with this? Do you not see that you have done to me exactly what the leaders in COW have done to a great many of the parents who do have children in COW? You have judged me, a name on a screen and made damning statements about my faith and where I stand with God but you don’t have the first clue who I am.
Your fallacious thinking that because my name is Lorayne then I must be a specific Lorayne with a daughter and son n law in COW is illogical.
That’s not how it works, that’s not how any of this works.
Sorry- Addressed to Moses from above post he made to me simply because I told the author great work. Don’t see what I said to deserve the harsh judgment and criticism he spewed.
Dear Lorayne, I have indeed assumed wrongly that you were the parent of one of the church members who thought that it might be her mother (she did not read the blog). I am sorry about that. Nevertheless, I plead with you to not believe everything being said about the church members. I have interacted with them closely for several months now, and they are being grossly misunderstood. They are a group of young people passionately pursuing the call to follow God’s will in their lives. I do not know of another church where the Word of God is held so high, where the love between the people is so strong, where sin is taken so seriously, where Christ is more important than anything else, where intense prayer precedes everything that they do, and where the love of Christ is so powerfully manifest among its members. They come across as extremely judgmental to the outsiders because the Word of God is condemning to those who do not want to receive it. Persecution authenticates their walk with their Lord Jesus Christ, and they are willing to die in order to preserve the Truth, and in order to see souls saved. I am blessed to know them! Love in Christ, Moses.
Thank you for a very real apology. I appreciate it. Moses, while I appreciate you wanting me not to believe everything being said I have to remind you, I have interacted with them myself. Including Preethi. I fear you are only allowing yourself to see what you want. I encourage you to try and be objective. It isn’t one or two people who have raised valid concerns. It is most families and the Christian community. Paul Washer didn’t demand not to be associated with or referred to the group for no reason. Their doctrine has been well researched and dissected. You are refusing to even consider anything else. You have admitted you stayed in a church for 20 years only to come to the conclusion it wasn’t a good fit. Your family has only been in contact with Church of Wells for maybe a year. How can you be so certain if it took you 20 years to come to the conclusion you did about your former church.
We get that your interaction is much different than 95% of the other families. We get you can probably call or text Preethi at anytime and she probably writes back or calls. So your experience is different. But you also made the decision to lay aside your beliefs and reservations and give yourself completely to the elders. That’s great if it works for you. What you need to be sensitive to is that many of these families are good Christian people, many of them active in the Church. Why is it that for them to have a relationship with their child they have to abandon what they believe to accept the COW doctrine? That is ultimately what you did and what these parents have been told they MUST do if they want to see their children again. Why are they wrong for holding true to their own beliefs? How do you know for certain you made the right choice this time around? How do you know that in 5-10-20 years you won’t be saying exactly what you are saying about your former Church?
You feel you did not have good judgment before with your former Church? What changed all of a sudden that you are now so confident with this decision? That even when facts are given about the group, facts are researched, a former Deacon warned you and your daughter, people who have left have posted very gut wrenching accounts of the abuse and torment, families, one after the other have given you honest testimonials of how COW really works you still sit here and stick your head in the sand?
Moses, I don’t have to listen to what people post because I have personally experienced it. I have personally caught them in lies. I have personally caught them creating fake facebook profiles and trying to send me friend requests. I have watched the personal attacks on family members. You are being blinded by what you truly hope is not the case. You refuse to see the evidence. For that, I feel very sorry for you. I must ask, as I did on the previous story before. Do you intend to celebrate Christmas this year?
“Ryan Ringnald, decided to deny the baby medical care in favor of praying that she would get well and, after she died, praying for her resurrection for 15 hours…”
It must be pointed out that the elders and Dan Pursley offer contradictory explanations. They insist they didn’t know the baby was sick, she died suddenly, and at the same time minimize observable signs of distress as “normal.”
It can’t be both ways. You can’t say that prayer was a reasonable alternative to emergency medical care and in the same breath, say there wasn’t anything to pray about anyway.
Dear Guest, Of course, they would have known that the baby was sick, that is why they prayed with intense burden for healing of the sickness. They said that they had not realized that the sickness was unto death and things happened very quickly. Love in Christ, Moses.
Three days of a newborn infant not sucking not receiving sustenance for life is not “quick” at all Moses. The babies father testified to the law enforcement that the baby never was able to nurse over a three day period and he was trying to insanely feed the baby with an eyedropper. Three days of Downward health by a newborn infant is not quick or sudden like your brothers heart attack onset. Rather it is obvious willful neglect of a child. they should be charged with intent and knowledge of willful harm and endangerment of a childs life. You have not made an educated comparison. Are you sure your a scientist ?
Dear Guest, My dear brother died of a heart attack at the young age of 27 after a tennis game. His friends called 911 only in the last minute when it was too late. I do not condemn his friends as murderers because they did not see the imminent danger of death. This thought had not occured to me ever. You see, it has become a stumbling point in the case of baby Faith to many because faith and prayer are involved. Somehow many people are treating them as murderers because they prayed instead of seeking medical care. Best regards, Moses.
A couple of interesting points.
1. The idea that family is weighted with the same value as material possessions and income.
Very few hold cars or houses in the same light as family. I hope these young adults haven’t been convinced that they don’t mean anything more important than a car to their parents, families and friends. No, we all know that human beings and loved ones don’t compare to inanimate property. Generally, most people will (and do) routinely sacrifice possessions for their children and families.
2. Complicated circular reasoning about criticism –
Disapproval or criticism or opposition from family, friends, the world, is bad and a reason to isolate. Questioning = “persecution” for being the one true church, or for Christian beliefs or for special unique doctrine. A quantum leap. No middle ground or room for casual inquiry. Runs the full spectrum from a simple question to doubting to argument to rejection.
But persecution = good. Disapproval = affirmation and validation. Evidence of righteousness, proof of superiority, favor with God. The true gospel.
Perfect. If someone is not critical, they need to make them critical! What this shows is intentional strategy. This was planned or the leaders learned it themselves as a retention tactic, somewhere else.
Thank you Mr. Hankins. Thank you for helping to expose these evil men and their mission to control the minds and bodies of all those held spiritually captive. The truth will set them free.
More info re: CHURCH OF WELLS
8/11/14 THE RAG BLOG (“Child Murder in Texas”):
https://www.theragblog.com/lamar-w-hankins-report-child-murder-in-texas/
9/12/14 RAG RADIO: https://archive.org/details/RagRadio2014-09-12-LamarWHankins
9/24/14 PODCAST:
https://www.theragblog.com/metro-podcast-thorne-dreyer-lamar-hankins-discusses-a-major-scandal-at-the-church-of-wells-cult-in-east-texas/
TEXAS MONTHLY (“Sinners in the Hands”; February 2014):
http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/is-the-church-of-wells-a-cult
TEXAS MONTHLY (“The Younger Years of the Church Elders”; 3/6/14):
http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/younger-years-church-elders/page/0/2
CHURCH OF WELLS FORUM (This is a place for learning and gathering information about the group):
http://faith.boardhost.com/index.php
BOYCOTT CHARITY ENTERPRISES INC. WELLS, TEXAS – FACEBOOK PAGE
https://www.facebook.com/TakeWellsBack
PRAY FOR CATHERINE GROVE – FACEBOOK PAGE
https://www.facebook.com/prayforcatherinegrove
PRAYER FOR THE CHURCH OF WELLS – FACEBOOK PAGE
https://www.facebook.com/PrayersAndLoveForTheChurchOfWells
Here is more info:
http://www.thechurchofwells.org/
Dear Mr. Hankins,
By God’s grace, Christ has redeemed me from the empty traditions of my forefathers, by the precious blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. According to the tradition of Christ however, we think outside the realm of human tradition…I am blessed to have a son-in-law, a man after God’s own heart, redeemed from the empty way of life of his forefathers as wel. Our family forsook the traditions such as the giving and taking dowry when my grandfather became a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ. God is more than adequate to supply all of our needs according to the riches of His grace. By God’s grace, the Church of Wells members never once asked me for money, and this is the topic that is least discussed among the brethren, and they care for one another very dearly. As you know, many of the members come from rich families, and many of them are highly educated and intelligent….if the desire to covet money was a part of their lives, they can become rich very quickly, but they have forsaken the love of money to earn something much better, a relationship with Jesus Christ. Nothing can separate them from the love of God through Christ Jesus, who gave Himself up for them…not even trouble, or distress, or the reproach of men…Christ is enough, yesterday, today, and forever! Love in Christ, Moses.
How can you say your son in law is a man after Gods own heart when he so blatantly breaks Gods command to honor ones father and mother. And please spare me the argument mentioned in the story about what Jesus said of ones love for Him must be like. If you truly believe this then Jesus lied in Matt. 5:43-48 when He spoke of loving your enemies( nit that Scriprure teaches that parents are enemies). It seems by doing this he makes God a liar. An intelligent man like yourself surely can see the hypocrisy in such a view of Scripture.
Dear Anonymous, There is no greater honor that a man can give to his parents, than to surrender to God’s will, and follow His ways. Eli’s sons, Hophni and Phinehas had a close, carnal relationship with their father, but they brought dishonor to their father by rejecting God, what a shame! The truth is that, the church members love their parents, and want to see them saved…therefore, they preach Christ to them. Sadly, many parents reject them because they do not want to hear about God from their children. What a blessed thing would it be, if the parents are united with their children in the peace of Christ? By rejecting their children, the parents are rejecting the Word of Christ which they are passionate about sharing. There is no greater honor, than to love their parents enough to see the spiritual condition of their parents, and to see that they are truly saved. I encourage the parents to hear the Word of God from their children, be prepared to repent of sin, taste and see that the Lord is good, He indeed IS! Love in Christ, Moses.
Nobody’s rejecting their kids, Moses. That’s what Sean, Ryan and Jake tell them so they’ll feel bad.
It’s not a level playing field. They are not all equal. The ranks have to obey the “elders” and the next level of 5-10 men that have been with the group the longest. The “board of directors” of Charity Enterprises, Inc.
They need to please them to pass muster. To be able to hang onto their salvation. Because the “elders” are the ones who decide and judge.
So if they’re told something, they’re going to commit 100% so they can demonstrate their loyalty and worthiness. They’ll believe any lies they’re told, because they’re highly motivated to and their trust in Sean and Ryan is absolute.
But here’s the flip side of that coin – deep down inside, they trust their parents more. Just like tiny kids, they can better afford to offend parents and family than these men they’re trying to please. Because they know their parents. Because they have a lifetime of trust built on a foundation of familial love and bond. At a subconscious level, they know they can trust them to still be there. While they don’t know for sure with these virtual strangers.
So there’s that.
I have never rejected my child ever. that is a lie a falsehood a manipulation a trick an atrocity. The cow men are kidnappers that’s all they are no more.
Moses, you are very correct in stating that many are “Highly Educated” and Intelligent…your statement that they have forsaken the love of money to have a relationship with Christ is ABSOULTELY RIDICULOUS!!! These men choose NOT to work! It is much easier for them to “Manipulate for Money” rather than work an honest job and be respectful human beings in our Society. These men are so much like Charles Manson – highly intelligent – have an phenomenal ability to gain control (and get a kick out of it) over other people. The Manson Family lived in a commune, they had communal beliefs, Manson was hostile to Society as is the Church of Wells and Charles DID NOT want to work either. He had all the money in the world (as do the elders from “Manipulated Money from members and those parents who ENABLE this horrific group). Charles Manson one said ” The game is mine. I deal the cards.” That sounds EXACTLY like Sean Morris, Ryan Ringnald and Jacob Gardner. Well boys, I have news for you – when you bet against God and parents who STAND FIRM you are going to loose! It is only a matter of time and your “House of Cards” will come tumbling down!
Amen!!!
Dear Stacy, Jesus said that you cannot both love money, and God, either you must hate the one and love the other, or love the one and hate the other. I do not know who Charles Manson, is but I do know that Sean, Ryan and Jacob work extremely hard, much harder than the so called pastors of many churches of this nation. Both Ryan and Sean have taught me and my wife personally from the Word of God for many hours at a time with a zeal and a passion. I do not know many people who have such depth of knowledge and understanding of God’s Word, and also who work hard to study and to teach at every God given opportunity! I was really blessed the one time when we reached Ryan’s house at 2 am, he was waiting for us, and he taught us the Word of God till 5 am, my wife and I were thoroughly blessed and inspired by his love for us, and his zeal! I have not had another pastor teach me personally like that, even for 1/2 hour during my 23-year attendance at my previous church. So, it is not a true statement that they do not work…in fact, they work much much more than most people that I know! Love in Christ, Moses.
You present an odd black-or-white ethic on the reality of money. Which is hardly your own lifestyle or this group’s.
As if it’s one or the other in a vacuum – either one needs to have no money at all or one is preoccupied with wealth. Not true. Not reality.
As if providing for one’s family is a sin – for everyone else – but not for you or this group. Not true, from either direction. You and your group work a job for a paycheck, engage in fee-for-services free enterprise, retail sales, etc etc. because you are holy and attained sinless perfection. The rest of the world does the same out of reprobate sinfulness, self-interest and love of money.
So simple and easy to condemn and rebuke, isn’t it?
If Church of Wells buys a modest RV, it’s because God told them to and they are holy. If I buy a modest RV to take my children camping, I’m immoral. But the Texas Boys are mightily pleased to borrow an RV when it suits them. Which wouldn’t be available for their use in the first place if everyone was following their rules, would it?
You decided to study chemical engineering and accept financial student endowments and a place in Canada because you were obeying God? You took a job with an international corporate conglomerate and bought a suburban home because you were committed to a simple modest life?
The rest of us go to school, work as doctors and teachers and welders and heavy equipment operators and musicians and waitresses, buy homes and raise children – because we’re reprobates?
In the meantime, everything these young men started with was provided by someone else. From the trailer they first lived in, to Kristin and Daniel’s home they shared. From vehicles to credit cards to tuition. Grandparents and parents provided then and still do.
Unlike most American and Canadian young men, Sean Morris, Ryan Ringnald and Jake Gardner have never worked. They didn’t need to.
I’m hearing the voice of privilege. Entitlement. I’m hearing people who’ve never had to rely on their own resources. Who could always reach out and ask for something. People who’ve never felt desperation or the fear that comes from poverty and not having enough and not having the resource of family to call on.
You too, Mr. David. India is known for its extreme poverty, but much of the country is middle-class and wealthy castes. You’re an elitist academic.
Your superficial one-dimensional sermonizing about the evils of money is tiresome and phony, never mind patently hypocritical.
Their store failed because of poor business model: they alienated their customer base.
Dear Q, The church members, including Sean, Ryan and Jake work extremely hard, much harder than most people that I know. They do not condemn work, but they preach against any idolatry, be it work, or money, or beauty, or family, or reputation, or laziness, or finding pleasure in the entertainment of the world, because God hates idolatry. The Bible is pretty clear that one cannot both love money and God, either one hates money and loves God, or one loves money and hates God. They preach that true children of God must hate what God hates, and love what God loves. Love in Christ, Moses.
You are arguing for the sake of argument. You know perfectly well that the bible cautions against extremes. That “love of money” isn’t the same thing as providing for one’s family.
If you’re going to insist on a platform of ‘money is evil and not allowed’, then practice what you preach. If that were true, then Sean can’t justify his corporation (Charity Enterprises, Inc.), or any of the businesses, or any member holding a job, and you can’t justify your job.
So stop. You know what the bible means.
Moses, your previous Pastor IS NOT holding your daughter under “EVIL” circumstances. Your previous Pastor surely would have met with you at ANYTIME of the night if you were in need and asked. Your hours of meetings with the elders of the CoW are not out of the ordinary and certainly DO NOT make these elders extrodinary or more Godly. This tactic is something that all parents MUST endure if they are going to be able to communicate with their children in that group.Please don’t try to convince as otherwise. As a Mother I am heartbroken that you have literally turned your back on your daughter who is being ABUSED (abuse is in many forms) and needs her Father to help her get out from the tight grip and claws of the Devil. These CoW men manipulate all – state of TX for the Government Programs, The kind people of Texas who work hard to provide for their own families and are made to pay taxes that are helping to provide for these Cow men and group. The women of the CoW who are impregnanted over and over to help supply more government assistance, the members of the CoW who hand over their own $, cars and wordly possesions for $. Finally, these men have manipulated all including law enforcement to believe that this is about Religion!!! This is far from Religion Moses, this is ABUSE on many levels. Sean, Ryan & Jacob should put the FAKE RELIGIOUS SHIELD down and stand up and fight like men…they won’t because they would loose. The only thing they have protecting them is thier claim that this is RELIGION!
It sounds as though Moses, you yourself IDOLIZE the men of the CoW and you love your money. You Sir should re-evaluate your heart, soul and TRUE WORD of God. Honestly, this is RIDICULOUS…believe what you want, let us believe what we choose. This is not even ab
Who said anything about coveting money? The question of finances is about
a.) how they support themselves – the substantial cash required for subsistence of the collective;
b.) the culture of maintaining dominion over the group;
c.) removing resources from individuals, creating a shared dependence on the group.
Dear Guest, Christ is the head of their house, and they are subject to one another, and to the elders in the reverent fear of God. Even the elders are subject and accountable to one another, and to the church members. God is providing their needs and sustaining them in spite of the persecution! Love in Christ, Moses.
Yes, yes, the persecutions. Oy vey ist mir, the persecutions! And the slanders and the persecutions…
Zog nit keynmol ~
Moses,
They are NOT BEING PERSECUTED in any way, shape, or form!!! They are boys who have personality disorders and who have sadistic and evil hearts. How can ANYONE watch a NEWBORN BABY die of starvation just so that they can do a spiritual experiment and then when that baby is cold and blue and rigor mortis sets in, they cart her around from house to house just to see if they can use their super special magical powers to bring her back to life INSTEAD of calling 911??? That is sick and shameful and nothing but EVIL. Christ is NOT the “head of their household”, ego and evil are.
So Moses, why did the cow “elders” whine when their business was forced to shut down if money is not of any importance to them??? They are nothing more than spoiled brat punks who desire the one thing that they were never handed before they had the bright idea of starting their own church! POWER over weaker human beings. Makes them feel like Jesus Christ, himself. Oh wait, they do believe that they are “remnants of Christ”! How incredibly convenient for them, and for you…
Dear We See Through You, They did not whine, but the one young man smiled in response to my question (we were sitting on the floor in the empty store) if they were sad about the closed store, he smiled and said, “No Moses, we are blessed to be persecuted for Christ’s sake.” Love in Christ, Moses.
Well, I think the reason the comment was made was because you have come out very publicly and blamed the store closing on the boycott and the Groves. In a sense you have whined about it, placing blame instead, of looking at it from a true business sense that the store itself was not making money.
The facebook page to boycott Charity Enterprises began in August 2013, over a year ago. It wasn’t just aimed at the store so you truly can’t attribute the closing solely on a facebook movement or the Groves. If as you say in a previous post the store received much business from people passing through on the busy Hwy 69 then it is fair to say those people would have no knowledge of the group or a boycott.
You firmly believed it was not the town of 800 that supported the store but also the many travelers. If a service is good then really a handful of people boycotting it shouldn’t impact it. People will continue to go give their business to places even if others have a tiff with them IF the services are wanted. (Reference Chick Fil A). The problem is what I have been told personally from locals is that the meat was no longer of the same quality and the food on the shelves was expired. That is not a service people want.
Food packages were clearly bought from other discount stores marked up in price with the original price stickers still on them. Is this something you want to buy? They were stocking store brand items from places like HEB and charging MORE than the consumer could buy from the original store. This is why the store closed Moses. It wasn’t offering a product people wanted to purchase.
The items were expired, over priced and second hand. Bottom line. Facts are Facts and your baseless accusations that you can not back up to any business model are shallow. Your statement the boycott closed the store and people like the Groves are responsible for many families going hungry is not only a horrible accusation to make, it is very unchristian. You are trying to imply they wanted the children to go hungry and they were proud of it. That was never the case. But we all know the children will not go hungry because no matter the status of the store the Lonestar cards will work elsewhere. The children will be fed.
Oh Moses,
You cannot even keep your stories straight. That is one good thing about the truth, when you tell the truth, you do not have to remember all of the lies and untruths that you have told. It is a fairly simple concept to live by. You might want to try it when defending the cow members.
What Lorayne said below is an example of the truth. The cow and you whined and blamed and made scapegoats out of the Groves and the townspeople who boycotted this business instead of facing the facts. Cute story, but the young man who “smiled” and professed that the cow is “blessed” to be “persecuted for Christ’s sake” sounds like quite the drama queen.(No offense to drama queens, intended!) Enough with the “persecution” jibber-jabber. Not only is it nauseating, but it is extremely pompous and pathetic. There will be no starving children in this cult, unless you would like to include poor baby Faith Pursley who actually DID starve to death at the hands of these fools. Would you like to try to deny or excuse THAT one away??????
Moses, I do not see where anyone said the you were asked for money. What was stated, whether you want to call it a dowry or not was you have admitted to providing substantial financial support to the group. It may not be substantial in terms as you speak but $28,000 is substantial.
What struck me when I read your comments was how quickly you forget what you have said before or accused others of. When the store shut down you went on a social media attack saying the Groves and other families were celebrating its closure and celebrating the fact they had personally taken away the sole income for the group. You stated the Groves had cost the group $20,000. Mr.David, seeing as above you state they have no desire to covet money and they can become rich very quickly, I am having trouble with you blaming the Groves and other families for “costing the group $20,000” and “taking away their sole source of income.”
Can you see your own error? You can’t blame the Groves and other families for supposedly costing them money they need and then turn around and say they don’t need money from you because they are highly intelligent and able to become rich quickly.
How you quickly blamed the families for the store closing, instead of what is basic common sense that you can’t run a store in a town of 800 where you pay $5000/month rent and your shelves are mostly empty and the food is out of date. You can’t support a group of over 100 on the profits of one gas station. But that didn’t stop you for blaming and pointing the finger at the Groves and other families for being the reason babies would go hungry.
No I don’t believe you will read any of the above and have any light bulbs go off but it needed to be stated for the record. If you want to earn any credibility stop dancing around the money and just come out and say, yes I have given in support of my daughter a sum of _______.
We all know that the Church of Wells/Moses NEVER take accountability or responsibility for ANYTHING – it is ALWAYS the Groves or the other parents. I am curious to why Moses did not give up his high paying job to have a relationship with Christ? I am sure that there will be a reason to why he is working AND can still be as Godly as the rest. While the outside world who is working ( all of us) are sinners and without God BUT we (Texans) are the ones footing the bill for their government assistance! (I guess Moses and his money is being spent on helping to recruit, travel, and purchase property)! Wait – I thought the Church of Wells DID NOT want the government involved? Like ALWAYS double standards. Moses, there are MANY MANY wonderful Charities you could donate your $28, 000 to (and I am sure much more) that TRULY need the help. Like you yourself stated, they are highly educated (including the women) who can and should GET UP and GET OUT and GET A JOB!
Dear Stacy, They are hard working people, even though they do not fit your standards concerning the type of work. They are content with a simple life, so they do not have to be rich like the heathen. By God’s grace, I have cruficied by carnal desires, so I do not work to become rich, but to use the gifts that God has given me. If God calls me to do something other than my present job, I am prepared to do whatever the Lord leads me to do. I believe that this is the attitude of the church members as well. Some members own businesses like tree cutting, others working in the sawmill, some others in grocery stores, some in chicken factories, some do computer programming, some are focused on fulltime ministry work, so it all depends on God’s calling. My son-in-law works extremely hard ministering to the men most days, praying, writing (not many men in their twenties have written a 718-page book expounding upon the Word of God!), preparing and giving sermons (not many pastors give 2-3 hour long, Spirit-filled sermons which are treasured by the church members) and he washes His wife with the Word of God late into the night, and they pray together unlike many professing christian couples! Work is God ordained, but God tells us not to love the world, or anything in the world, including the boasting of what we have, or do! In summary, they work very hard to support their families, and to benefit one another! Love in Christ, Moses.
“…not many men in their twenties have written a 718-page book expounding upon the Word of God!”
Very true; not many men have. Nor want to. Most men in their twenties don’t believe they are Jesus reincarnate leading apostles, hear God’s voice, or want to own their own churches, either.
I can think of a couple that did and were pretty successful at it.
Moses are you listening to yourself? I never said anything about the men of the CoW working to become rich like the “Heathen”! They are choosing NOT to work and if their businesses are not bringing them the income they need to provide for their familes or group that is their own fault!! Frankly, it IS NOT anyone elses responsibility to foot the bill/bills for these highly educated young people. They are NOT disabled. They could work Moses to earn $ for BASIC necessities (food, shelter, utilities, gas for their cars). Moses, if they are such hard working men then why do they use government assistance? I really would appreciate a response. Your comment regarding Sean ministering to the other men for hours and washing your daughter with God’s word way into the night is REALLY PSYCHOLOGICAL ABUSE! I am sure Sean has prayed and God has told him that you Moses should continue to work and help foot their bills (that is your calling). People who need government assistance DO NOT travel the country/world recruiting (that costs $$$$). Moses, you CAN NOT justify ANY of this. I have said it before and I will say it again – this is NOT about religion. Sean, Jacob and Ryan hold up their PRETEND RELIGIOUS SHIELD so nobody can touch them. These men shoud stand up and fight like REAL men (that includes providing finacially ALL by themselves for their group) as well as coming forward and discussing all these issues face to face with ALL that is interested. These men would NOT even consider this because they are SCARED and know that they are in the WRONG and without the religious shield they are nothing but CRIMINALS without
protection!!!!
Dear Lorayne, The store was profitable, supporting the church members until the unrighteous boycott was initiated. As you know, the store is on highway 69 with a lot of busy traffic, so the customer base is not limited to the 800 people of the town. By God’s grace, the church members do not have covetous desires like the heathen, so they are able to live by humble means…this is a choice that they have made, forsaking the riches and pleasures of this world for something greater, a life that is focused on pursuit of God, and things pertaining to the kingdom of heaven. It is not that they do not work, but they do not work to support a carnal lifestyle like the heathen, considering that Godliness with contentment is great gain! Mrs. Lorayne, you are rejecting God by rejecting the bride of Christ in the Church of Wells. I plead with you to consider what your daughter has to say about having the right relationship with Jesus Christ….please do not reject her because you do not want to hear about her Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ! All that your daughter wants is your salvation through the shed blood of Jesus Christ….please do not resist Him! Love in Christ, Moses.
Moses says…..”Mrs. Lorayne, you are rejecting God by rejecting the bride of Christ in the Church of Wells. I plead with you to consider what your daughter has to say about having the right relationship with Jesus Christ….please do not reject her because you do not want to hear about her Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ! All that your daughter wants is your salvation through the shed blood of Jesus Christ….please do not resist Him! Love in Christ, Moses.”
Moses, I am not sure how you think you know me or my family but you have committed a sin stating I have rejected God. I am asking for an apology. You do not know me or my family. You do not know my daughter. You do not know anything about my daughter. Your arrogance has led you to post things that are blasphemous against my family and faith. You also owe an apology to the mother who you have mistaken me for and for the accusations you have brought against her and the persecution she has suffered. You are mistaken Mr. David. My name is clearly spelled Lorayne. You will want to check that against any members parents as I have no daughter in the clutches of the Church of Wells. I will close with a quote from Elder Gardner. “Thou Art An Offense Unto Me.”
I will address your other comments in a separate post, as I felt this needed personal attention. Don’t forget the apology, for the false accusations you have made. Sincerely, Lorayne Davis
Moses has a habit of making false accusations and slanderous remarks about people he thinks he knows or anyone who doesn’t agree with the COW whether they are a true Christian or not…… He cannot possibly know whether someone is a true follower of Christ or not How can he say that you should listen to your daughter about your relationship with God. He is implying that because you don’t agree with your daughter that you aren’t saved. Wow. This is so unbiblical and I can’t understand how a believer can get so messed up with COWs doctrine….. Red Flags all over the place …..
Dear Lorayne, Thanks for identifying yourself! My message is not for you if your daughter is not currently a blessed member of the Church of Wells. The statement about rejecting the bride of Christ is still valid based on the comments of Lorayne in this blog. If you have been saved by the blood of Christ, I praise God for that! May you continue to abide in Him all the days of your life, may you not reject the bride of Christ at the Church of Wells. Love in Christ, Moses.
Wait….so the COW receives government assistance? How pathetic….we keep hearing about how hardworking these people are!
“…empty traditions of my forefathers…”
That’s so sad and depressing. The 4th millennium, 34th century BCE. Moses has traded 10,000 years, beautiful rich history and the first major civilization in South Asia, for 300 years of English preachers’ traditions.
The British Empire and colonial India lives.
Dear Q, Foolishness in comparison to the surpassing riches of knowing Christ! Love in Christ, Moses.
How can what has been researched by Mr Hankins and exposed in his 2 articles (and more to come)…be used to bring the leadership down. What can we, the outraged public do?
I would say prayer is the best defense. So far many prayers were answered about the closing of the store and station. In time God is going to reveal COWs ungodliness and false teachings. Especially if they continue as they are. Pray that others will not be deceived and that their means of recruiting with be shut down….
I don’t want to bring the leadership down. I want them to go home to their mamas and be wrapped in the loving embrace of their families. I want them to trust the people who love them and get help for what ails them.
Dear Q, They have much to offer to their families, if only they received them in the burden that God has placed among them. Love in Christ, Moses.
What empty meaningless sentences. Families want nothing of them. And their families owe them nothing. That’s not how it works.
Perhaps you’re to be forgiven for a lack of ability to comprehend. You raised two children in this. Your children didn’t dance and sing and frolic and play outside, I suppose.
Your daughter worried about her salvation and spent time anxiously praying at an early age. This makes you proud, no doubt, something you trained her to do. You trained them to be goal- and performance-oriented with studies and they delivered. You picked out a wife for your son and probably expected to pick the husband for your daughter. Your household and your experience seems to lack color, joy, and of course, any of the “empty traditions.” You have no experience in anything else. So this is all very comfortable for you. It’s not difficult to understand. What is difficult for you to understand is anyone else’s lifestyle, traditions, experiences. You simply cannot appreciate it and I don’t think you’re willing to.
What is not your right, is to validate these people; to bestow or deny permission to have the families they were born into.
If only you understood that. None of this would be happening. There would be no hostility. You and the three Texans could be preachers, have congregations. Members would commit to and embrace your doctrine and theology by free will, celebrating your teachings with you. By choice.
What a shame you’ve missed that.
Q, that was beautifully and eloquently said. It just struck me that in the photos that I have seen of Mose’s daughter, Preethi, there is something missing behind her fake smiles. You are absolutely correct, Q. There is an innate blankness in her eyes, an empty, cavernous darkness. It seems as if the entire David family reflects emptiness in their eyes, in their smiles. How incredibly sad. The beautiful life that God has blessed them with lacks the richness of joy and color and tradition! Very, very observant and astute, Q. And very, very, very disconcerting and sad. Moses will never, ever understand this, nor will his daughter, Preethi, because she has never been allowed or encouraged to. God wants so much more for people like them and sadly, they are incapable of grasping that. I feel pity for them.
It is pitiable. I do feel sadness and pity for them, as well.
I say we get a group together and picket the Cherokee County Sheriff Department and the Lufkin FBI!!! We do have Freedom of Speech/carrying signs…I’m not talking 10-20 people I am talking HUNDREDS!!! We need to contact Dan Harris of Nightline and many other news teams prior to our picket. Lets get as MANY Women Shelters in the Texas area involved…I just know that there is a group of Activists out there who will help us fight for the lives of these children! The Law Enforcement in Cherokee County is a joke – NOT taking Catherine Grove to a Women’s Shelter when she requested to go on Nov 4, 2013 is a CRIME in itself!!! If enough people get involved in person it would make a tremendous stand. It is also a CRIME that the Law in Cherokee County WILL NOT give the Grove Family a Peace of Mind. They could easily pick Catherine up and take her alone to a safe place and phone the Grove Family to inform them that she is alive and well!!! Surely there is some Law Enforcement reading this who has a heart, soul, and has HAD ENOUGH of this and would be man or woman enough to step up… My other suggestion (many will boo and hiss) gather hundreds and go in and get the children! I will tell you at this point if this were my daughters I would go in “GUNS A BLAZING” (figure of speech) Maybe going to jail for something/SOMEONE you love is worth the outcome!!!
These rolling comments are becoming a soap box for Moses to propagate the CoW ‘s heretical doctrine.
Dear Just Wondering, I am simply trying to balance out the lies about the church from the truth as I have found it among the members. Love in Christ, Moses.
1 John 4:10-12 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
http://www.thechurchofwells.org/
This will balance out the lies, Moses!
Agree with you there. It could be time to give it up.
Deception is a very powerful tool that Satan has…… We wont be able to convince them of their ungodliness, they are too far into Satans control, only God will be able to change their hearts to where they turn from their pride and unbiblical judgement. Prayer is the best advice and most powerful tool here. May God protect people’s ears from hearing their teachings…..
blue letter bible and http://www.2jesus.org .
I was hesitant to ‘enter’ this web site since there was another step. Did anyone try it?
Once more, just so it’s balanced: none of the parents of Church of Wells recruits have rejected their kids. That isn’t true. That’s untruthful. A lie.
It doesn’t involve God or doctrine or money or anything else or anyone else. It’s simply about relationship between parents and their children. It’s personal. It’s private. It’s individual. It’s not for someone else to speak for either.
The lie doesn’t stand up to scrutiny either. It doesn’t make sense. All fifty unique sets of parents from different backgrounds behaved in some predictable singular way of rejecting their kids? Because they didn’t want to hear scripture. After a lifetime of dealing with a variety of childhood and teenage problems and crises, it all comes down to that one thing and one moment. They weren’t rejected when these kids were bad and troubled, snuck out and partied, argued back and flunked classes. But now they are rejected because they quote scripture? How does that make any sense?
Motivation — It’s plain as day that Sean Morris has the biggest motive here. It’s Sean that needs the flock convinced this falsehood is true. While 50+ sets of parents don’t need their adult children to come live with them, Sean does. Sean needs them all to stay. At any cost. Without them, Sean is nothing. Without them, Sean is just a man.
Without them, parents are still parents. The children still belong to the family. No matter where they are, the relationship exists. The aunties and uncles, cousins and grandparents will still be there, forever. It’s real. It’s tangible. It endures everything.
Dear Q, This is not consistent with the testimony of the church members, you can read them on their website. Some parents have rejected them because their children preach to them of their Lord Jesus Christ. Other reject them by rejecting their blessed church family by calling them a “cult.” The reality is that the church members love their parents, cry and pray with intense burden for their salvation. Love in Christ, Moses.
MORE FOR DISCERNMENT THAT Church of Wells is heretical….
http://www.thechurchofwells.org/
Not a single parent rejected their children because they preached to them.
Not true. A falsehood purposefully crafted.
You might be the exception. Maybe you did. Did you reject your daughter because she preached the “Word of God” to you, Moses?
If you did, that’s you.
When you have asked each person — 100+ parents and several hundred (thousand?) grandparents, brothers and sisters, aunties and uncles — and they all tell you, yes, we rejected our child, then you can truthfully say this.
If something is not true, it’s a lie. To knowingly speak something that is false is called ‘lying’.
When you have asked each and every family member, you’ll find that no one rejected them. What you’ll find is that the children rejected the parents. Because they were told to. The members of this group must obey with the doctrinal direction given, in order to be judged righteous by Sean Morris. So they do.
Not a single parent rejected their children because they preached to them.
Not true. A falsehood purposefully crafted.
You might be the exception. Maybe you did. Did you reject your daughter because she preached the “Word of God” to you, Moses?
If you did, that’s you.
When you have asked each person — 100+ parents and several hundred (thousand?) grandparents, brothers and sisters, aunties and uncles — and they all tell you, yes, we rejected our child, then you can truthfully say this.
If something is not true, it’s a lie. To knowingly speak something that is false is called ‘lying’.
When you have asked each and every family member, you’ll find that no one rejected them. What you’ll find is that the children rejected the parents. Because they were told to. The members of this group must obey with the doctrinal direction given, in order to be judged righteous by Sean Morris. So they do.
I’ve never rejected my child EVER and I NEVER WOULD EVER. You havent interviewed me Moses. I consider you a GRAND LIAR. I’m still waiting to see my child. to hear from them. I will not disclose their gender. They are a grown adult whom I love very very much that I have been strategically and purposefully alienated from by the leadership of the C.O.W. and this forum this blog is not a waste of my time. It is my only connection to my alienated child….
“Moses”,
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it is, in fact, a cult.
Love in Christ,
Donna
Thank you Q. I have never rejected my child and I never would. I hope my child hasn’t rejected me … i’m still waiting to hear from them … desparately … what you wrote is so true so clear … it helps. Sean Morris is the instigator of all this trauma … why is he doing it ? Do you have any clue Q ?
We never rejected our daughter and son-in-law. Because we questioned the elders’ control and asked who had approved their salvation, we were cut off. THEY cut US off.
Dear Anon, Maybe if you identified yourself, I offer to ask them about you specifically if they indeed cut you off, and what was the basis for that. Love in Christ, Moses.
What exactly is your role that you offer to “ask them” and counsel these people in Wells about family relationships they’ve had to abandon in order to be compliant. You don’t know these people and the history, since your exposure to Church of Wells is new.
Do you now hold a position of authority?
Dear Donna, I am simply offering to help, if any parent is interested, I have no authority over anyone there! I only strive to explain the truth as I have come to see in this difficult situation. Love in Christ, Moses.
To the writer of this article- I am disappointed to have used my time to have read your so called, “case study.” It is clear to me that you do not even remotely come close to understanding what a case study is. It is people like you that make this whole situation worse.
And to everyone else on this forum- I “pray” that you find a better way to utilize your time.
We all decide for ourselves what a worthy use of our time is. What you mean is this isn’t the best way for you to utilize your time. So don’t.
KUDDOS to you Q!
I wish none of us had to spend time on this! I’m in the Lord’s Army and He place me in these ranks whether I like it or not!
Maybe that’s a Wow Cow.
Moses,
Do me a favor. Ask your son-in-law where Catherine is. We haven’t seen her in weeks.
Love In Christ,
Donna
Dear Donna, As long as Catherine has chosen to come under their covering, it is their responsibility to protect Catherine from danger. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I saw a note yesterday from a church member that Catherine was doing very well. Love in Christ, Moses.
And there is danger if she is allowed to see her parents?? Really?
Dear Guest, Catherine had the privilege to interact with her parents when she was approached by them, but she chose not to, no one prevented her. I am praying that the situation between her parents and her will change according to the will of God, into a peaceful relationship centered around Christ. With God all things are possible, and I am hoping for the best. Love in Christ, Moses.
Dear “Moses”,
I think you’re a Drama Queen and an untruthful one at that. Please talk in more circles.
Love in Christ,
Donna
Dear “Moses”,
Catherine is brainwashed. What are a bunch of men (who hid behind religion after they allowed a baby to die) doing with a single woman in her 20s? Major ick factor and inappropriate at the very least. What danger do they have to protect her from? And don’t you dare spew lies about her family. You got a message from the CowBoys?! Yippie!!! Must be true!
Love in Christ,
Donna
They are good at what they do manipulating people under their control in fact so good at their coercion and control that they benefit from it financially making it a profession … Human traffickers is what they are ….
FOR MORE BALANCE – check out this website.
http://www.thechurchofwells.org/ ….
to help discern the truth.
Dear Just Wondering, Famous men and their doctrines do not have a greater authority than the Holy, Inspired, Word of God. Love in Christ, Moses.
Dear Moses. Please wake up! None of the parents have rejected their children. NONE! We simply will not comply with their wishes to have the our relationship with God checked by the “elders”. Our child knows that they can come home at any time and would be welcomed with loving arms. We seek to have a communicative relationship at best but to no avail. No answered texts of “I love and miss you” no answered e mails asking how they are doing. NOTHING. This is not in accordance with biblical teachings about family. Sean in his glorified Doctrine of Judgment (which is an addition to the Bible by the way) had turned COW members against their parents because we do not believe their doctrine. Until the children are reconciled with their parents (and it is the responsibility of the children to do this because they are the ones that left us) the “church” is living in continual sin. It is amazing how they think they are such a pure church yet they are blatantly committing sin daily until reconciliation occurs.
I haven’t even had a chance to reject anything. my child is just GONE …. so whats up with that MOSES … and where is this rejection junk coming from anyway …. it’s just all trickery mockery lying manipulation by Sean Morris …
Dear Havenothadachance, Your child would love to share Christ with you..will you humble yourself before Almighty God, and receive His Word from your child? What do you have to lose? If God has chosen to reveal Himself to you through your child, why are you resisting Him? It is a good thing to lose one’s pride, in exchange for the manifest glories of life in Christ, quickened by His Word, which is God breathed! Love in Christ, Moses.
So their child would love to share Christ with them. Super. What does that have to do with their relationship?
Who says I’m resisting God ? I’m not resisting God or anything or anyone. What I said was I have not had a chance my child is GONE. Don’t twist my words Moses or whoever you are speaking for the cow….
Dear havenothadachance, Why did you separate yourself from your child? Maybe if you can identify yourself, I can encourage your child to contact you, if you are willing not to resist God in your child’s desire to share Christ with you. Love in Christ, Moses.
Moses where did you get the idea I “separated” myself from my child my family member in the cow ??? I never said that. You have a very bad habit, “Moses” of twisting peoples words and adding to them. This obnoxious in your face rudeness is very uncharacteristic of the Indian Culture. This is why I believe this obnoxious overriding person posting as “Moses” is not Moses at all but one of the leaders of the Cow probably his “always had everything he wanted” brat son in law Sean Morris.
Dear Truth Seeker, Just a couple of weeks ago, we hosted a family who visited both sides of their family. The family members do not necessarily agree with the doctrine of the church, but still, they were able to have a manageable interaction. I am sure that there could have been an unmanageable situation in which they would have had to leave, but this did not happen. The truth is that the church members love their families, and the family has some part in making this relationship be sustained. It is not in the interest of the church members if their relationship with their Lord Jesus Christ is compromised in any way when they meet (or talk) with their loved ones. Love in Christ, Moses.
A “manageable relationship”? That is pretty sad if that is all they can have with their God given family!
This is SICK. How can anyone, including YOU, Moses, try to place conditions on a relationship between parents and their child????? And who do you believe that YOU ARE, Moses David, taking a position of authority over the members of this cult and whether or not they should speak to their families? Care to divulge YOUR position in this “church” without lying for once? That is a rhetorical question because I do not believe that you would recognize the truth if it bit you in the…Well, you know the rest. Maybe the cow “elders” have figured out that it would be good to have an elder “elder” in power to make them appear more credible. It won’t.
Yes It is all very very sick and anyone who is staying with the COW has to be sick and not well. It is all very very alarming for body soul and mind.
I think Moses’ ship sailed the day he allowed his daughter and son in law tell him he was wrong and they were right, and in order to stay in contact with her and be considered a level 1 family HE must SUBMIT to them. Not the Lord. Not God, but to Sean Morris and the Church of Wells.
He hears us maybe but he can’t afford to agree. We all know what it will cost him. We know he did not agree with their teachings or ways until it became clear to him from talking to other families what would happen to him if he continued in disagreement. I have heard from many who have said their children have told them all would be well again if they would just come submit to the elders. Moses equals that to you rejecting your children because you refuse to allow 3 twenty something men dictate to you how you will believe. They didn’t reject their children, they rejected the ultimatum that it is our way or the highway. This is the elders BLACKMAILING you to come forward and glorify them. Moses himself said he felt blackmailed. Until he cowed down and did exactly as many of you have been told to do if you want to see or speak to your children. It’s the same reason the US does not give into terrorists or blackmail threats- it only makes your enemy stronger. If the elders are not glorified through people like Moses willing to constantly say they are good and everything is great then they lose credibility.
They only need one or two to be able to say not ALL families are cut off. That is their argument. Even Moses knows deep down you should never be forced to think one certain way if you want to remain in contact with family. That is what the elders expect- think like us, do as we say, support our needs and in return we will bless your child to contact you. You see, what he leaves out when he says Catherine has a phone, she can call anytime she wants. She very well may but Catherine has been conditioned that while she may pray about it and pray about it until Sean, Ryan or Jake give the ok it isn’t going to happen. They are the one’s who control the group and decide what is or isn’t God’s will to do. The group has been conditioned one of those 3 will let them know when God has blessed something to be. Their grasp is so strong a mother & father wouldn’t even call 911 to save their 3 day old baby so why in the world without their blessing would Catherine make a phone call either. Moses doesn’t see this type of control over his daughter because he has submitted himself and is also under their control. He may not consciously realize he has done it but until he is ready to take off the glasses and truly see this for what it is we are talking in circles with him.
Very well said, Lorayne! You can’t talk sense to people who are under the influence, so to speak….
Yes, very well said Lorayne!
Dear Lorayne, What was right about thwarting God’s call in my daughter’s life to follow Him in the burden to join like-minded saints of Christ who are united in one purpose? I was plain wrong! It was hard to admit my mistake, but by God’s grace, I humbled myself before Almighty God to repent of my sin. God filled me with peace in Him, and love for the Church of Wells members, even though I was against them at one point by believing all the lies about them. Now I am blessed to know a group of people among whom God is at work! Love in Christ, Moses.
It’s very understandable that Preethi would want to join “like-minded saints” and that you would like them as well. No surprise. It’s a good fit and a good match.
No one’s talking about you. Your family and your interests are not the same as any of the others. You are uniquely well-suited to be with these young men. You love this and are super happy. Great!
But we’re not talking about you — we’re talking about other people and other situations.
“…even though I was against them at one point by believing all the lies about them.”
Maybe if you were to identify the lies, it could be addressed. You could provide a solid service to others, so they would know which things to believe and not to believe and help them avoid the same traps.
Dear Q, I was told that they were “drugging people,” “preparing to flee the country,” “stockpiling arms,” “they will cut off communication with your daughter,” “starving people,” etc. etc. Love in Christ, Moses.
Interesting Moses … Your information you had about CoW that you have told others was coming from Chris Faulkner that Chris Faulkner was giving you the inside information on the cow how and why they were a dangerous group. so did Chris Faulkner tell you all those things above … Please tell us all what Chris Faulkner told you about the CoW and now why is he an outcast to the CoW to Preethi and we assume to you also … Keep your story straight now
… Your losing track of your maze circles …
Yes, do tell us- you have said Chris is the one who came to your home and told you bad things about COW and he is the only one you have identified as telling you bad things- so Chris told you they drugged people and were stock piling arms?
If Chris told you this or anything bad about COW why are you still friends and still post on his facebook page? If he is against this group you so vigilantly defend how is it you can remain friends and share facebook likes but these parents can not even get a text from their child?
Haven’t you and Preethi “rejected” Chris and his beliefs? You said he came to your home and told you bad things about COW? So then why is it ok for you to maintain contact with him- he obviously doesn’t agree with their ways or doctrine. That goes against EVERYTHING you have been posting about why these parents can not also have some type of contact with their own children.
Please explain why you can remain in contact and friendly with this man who has said bad things to you about COW but these parents can not do the same with their children?
How does that work? Double standard?
Amen Lorayne! This is a fierce spiritual battle that only prayer and the Lord God Himself can defeat. I pray that if there is any doubt in ANY child’s mind that the Lord would speak to them and give them the courage and the means to escape. Their families are ready and waiting with open arms.
Yes, you are very right Truthseeker! No need to keep going in circles with COW defenders when they have been brainwashed as well….
2 Corinthians 10:3-5
For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. on the contrary, they have divine power to DEMOLISH STRONGHOLDS. We DEMOLISH ARGUMENTS and EVERY PRETENTION that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
*PRETENSION
Dear Truth Seeker, Seek the Truth while He still may be found. Rejecting Christ in His bride is equivalent to rejecting the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ. The payment for sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ, our Lord. Love in Christ, Moses.
There you go again…. Judging whether a person is saved by assuming because they don’t agree with COWs methods that they are rejecting Christ. That is not our job. We should be encouraging fellow believers.
“Rejecting Christ in His bride is equivalent to rejecting the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ.”
No, it isn’t. That’s self-serving rhetoric you’re flexing to mean ‘Church of Wells’ for your own self-interest.
“The payment for sin is death”
No, it isn’t. The Shakespearean drama should stop. Remember, “God is not the author of confusion” or whatever it was that Jake misquoted. God doesn’t bless you and is not pleased when you make things sound kind of shifty. How about speak contemporary English? Communicate. If that’s what you mean to do.
Do you mean people go to Hell? Yes, I think most North Americans understand that.
Dear Q,
“Death” signifies something much greater than physical death and hell, it is separation from God forever. This world is a wicked place, but there are still remnants of goodness. When we are separated from God, there is no goodness left anymore. Even the wicked person who might have some good in his life will have no more goodness left when he/she is separated from God through the eternal death! Romans 6:21-23 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
• Rejecting this group is not rejecting God or Jesus Christ.
• Refusal to join this group does not equal “rejecting Christ in His Bride.”
• Exercising the choice not to join this group is not “rejection.”
• Disagreeing with Sean Morris does not equate to disagreeing with God or Jesus.
• Sean Morris, Ryan Ringnald, and Jake Gardner are not The Person of the Lord Jesus Christ.
• The group Church of Wells is not The Person of the Lord Jesus Christ.
• Choosing not to believe these men’s doctrine does not equate to rejecting God.
A group of “false prophets”, wolves in sheeps’ clothing amongst lambs. The truth will out & their wicked nature shall be exposed for all to see. God will send his angels to COW to triumph over evil. This “fellowship” will then be known for the occult it truly is. God is love, light & everything holy. We were made in God’s image not to be equal but to serve our Father through spreading His divine word & love. No man claiming to have the “holiness of Jesus” or power of resurrection is a man of God. May the Lord bless any of His children that have been led astray by these “false prophets” with the wisdom & ability to see this evil for what it is & be brought back to the light, & be bathed in the Glory of our Lord and Savior, in Jesus’ name AMEN!
Hey Sean, remember you said you could beat up any woman? Beaten any up lately?
Kasia dodged a bullet.
Joe, it sounds like you know Sean on a personal level.
Joe please share any insight you may have. We are all happy to learn more. Moses may want to learn more about his son in law.
Dear Moses,
I have the truth. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior and I live for Him. I do not need COW to tell me if I am saved because I know I am. “Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God” (1 John 5: 1).
Amen Truthseeker!
Ephesians 2:8-9
“For by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, Not of works lest anyone should boast”. Amen!!
Dear Truth Seeker, No, you do not the church members to tell if you are saved. But it is their responsibility to protect their flock from false christians, or backslidden christians, from the leaven of hypocrisy contaminating their church body. Love in Christ, Moses.
No, you do not the church members to tell if you are saved.
This boldly contradicts everything you have said thus far.
Dear Moses- then how do you explain these words you wrote earlier….”they will not affirm a person’s salvation when they see the fruits of unrepentant, willful sin. I know that they do not change this standard for themselves,…”
– Moses David 8/24/14 @ 11:14pm in the comments section of the article Report: Child Murder In Texas
Moses, maybe you could ask Sean this:
If families were to sit silently and let their person preach to them for a tolerable amount of time, say the length of a long sermon, about an hour to two hours, could they then be allowed to have a regular relationship? Talk on the phone, visit.
If not, why not? What would it take? What does Sean want the families to do?
Greg Gordon, Founder of SermonIndex.netA voice against the CoW elders and the church practices.I personally had time to travel with two of the young leaders of this group many years ago. From the fruit I have seen and from testimonies of other elder brothers they are not able to receive any correction or guidance in the ways of the Lord. They feel superior and elevated in their standing of truth and will not humble themselves to realize they have erred.I would strongly counsel any brethren to not associate with them and to encourage anyone they know in the group to leave the group. When you have all of the true brethren in America warning against them then you know something is wrong, but sadly these 3 leaders have not seen this.
Well this pretty much says it!
Dear Truth Seeker, Does Greg Gordon weep and pray through most nights every week for the salvation of souls, and for the sleeping bride of Christ in this nation? Has been arrested for preaching the Gospel to people to whom Christ is a stumbling block? Has he been beaten up for sharing Christ to the rebellious? Does he go through many days without food because of the burden for souls? Does he live by faith for the provision of his daily needs, or, does he live by sight of his monthly salary? Has Greg Gordon started a church which does not have time limits on their services? Does he give 2-3 hour long sermons, which are recorded by the cellphones of young men who are not satisfied in listening to them just once? Does Greg Gordon routinely visit his church members every day to preach to them individually for several hours every day? Does Greg Gordon go to the neighboring cities to preach in the streets, and does he pray to God for provision of gas money for the trip? Does Greg preach at the dining table for many hours without touching his food, even as the others relish their meals, simply because he enjoys preaching more than his food? If so, is he prepared and willing to take the rebuke of a young, Spirit-filled, mighty man of God, empowered in valor by the Spirit of God? How about you, Truth Seeker? I know that the young men at the Church of Wells would love to meet men of God, presently walking with the Lord, who are not back-slidden, or who have not lost Christ as their first love, to be rebuked by them, and yes, preferably older men who might have greater experience than them. Are you prepared to be one of them? If so, you will certainly be a blessing to them! Love in Christ, Moses.
Dear Moses, I do not know this of Greg Gordon nor does it matter. None of the list of things you described presumably of Sean Morris means he is any more holy or any more right with the Lord than Greg Gordon or any of the parents of kids at COW. We are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ through faith. God calls us all to serve him in the way He wants us to serve Him. It is very prideful for any of you to think you are better and more holy than anyone!
Dear Truth Seeker, None of the things I shared about them earn any merit for their salvation, but are the works of God manifested in them by His grace. WE ARE SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST THROUGH FAITH! The reason I wrote about these is because you have put Greg Gordon and other people as being above them, based on his/their reputation among men. Love in Christ, Moses.
Interesting response Moses. I am pretty sure that scripture speaks about stuff like that…
“Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
“So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
“When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Dear Tarka, A lot of the things which I shared were not a “show off” by the church members, but rather, things I have observed as an outsider….they don’t boast about these things, but are grieving by false christianity, and by the condition of the sleeping or backslidden Christians scattered across the nation! Love in Christ, Moses.
Moses,
YOU are not an “outsider” to the cow…Find someone impartial to profess the same rhetoric and at least attempt to make your regurgitated use of biblical phrases somewhat genuine. It is blasphemy that these cult leaders even pretend to be Christians, judgmental little brats that they are.
“There is much sin in many words” it doesn’t matter if it’s the bible or not.
Yes, way too many Godly people, pastors, and fellow believers all see problems with them. That should make people question their authenticity. Good advice!
Yes Guest way to many Godly people, and pastors see major problems and yet when approached the elders will not humble themselves and accept that they might just be right. I would have so much more respect for their leadership if I saw some humility and admit of wrong in just ONE area! For Paul Washer to not want to be associated in any way with them says a lot!
Dear Truth Seeker, The church members would love to have an audience with Paul Washer, but he has rejected their request based on hearing only one side of the story told by people who were offended by the church members’ righteous judgment of their souls. This is quite against the Matthew 18 protocol. I hope that the Lord will turn Paul Washer’s heart towards Christ by loving the precious saints who have been washed by the blood of Christ that are members of the Church of Wells. Love in Christ, Moses.
And I hope that the members of the Church of Wells will turn their hearts towards the precious saints who are their loving families who also are washed by the blood of Christ
Dear Truth Seeker, They love them too much to leave them in their backslidden, or deceived, damnable condition. May God wake up the family to understand the condition that they are in. Love in Christ, Moses.
And likewise, may God wake up the COW so that they understand the condition they are in……
No he hasn’t rejected their request based on hearing only one side. There is a two way communication. He has rejected their doctrine!
Dear Truth Seeker, You can see the communications between them in which they rejected a meeting with the Church of Wells. If Paul Washer acted in the humility of Christ, and if he really wanted to share the love of Christ, he could have met them to discuss the allegations against them to help clear the present dilemma between the church and many families, and to help backslidden christian families be spared from the wrath of God. Love in Christ, Moses.
Dear Truth Seeker, Here is the link to the correspondence between the Church of Wells and Paul Washer’s HeartCry:
http://www.thechurchofwells.com/our-correspondence-with-marc-glass-heartcry.html
Love in Christ, Moses.
No, Moses, that’s a blatant lie. Marc Glass, Paul Washer’s Middle East and Africa Ministry Coordinator, clearly laid out for you, in the correspondence you linked below, why Paul does not want his name associated with you. It is because of the COW doctrine and Sean’s own writings found on the internet. It is because of the elders’ repeated rebellious and obstinate responses to Marc and their refusal to receive correction, though they claim in big boastful, empty words to earnestly desire correction. Yet they refuse it when it is offered to them. Matthew 18 protocol doesn’t apply to internet disputes, and Marc clearly explains why. Even this correction and explanation is ignored. It is outrageous arrogance on the part of the elders, and you are their ENABLER Moses!
I was reflecting this evening as we have arrived in east Texas for the weekend… On a sadness for Sean-I know it sounds strange doesn’t it? Of course, that then extended to all involved.
🙁 Yes, I think many can relate. I have a sadness as well. I am a parent. My children are not in COW but I still have trials as a parent. It is a very sad situation and while we all hope the elders will do a quick check like maybe Mr. Faulkner did, I don’t think they can.
Dear Visitor and Lorayne, The Bible says that Godly sorrow leads to repentance, sadness merely in the human realm has no eternal value. Love in Christ, Moses.
Sadness just turned to nausea!
Yeah really, Praying that our Godly sadness and grief will turn to repentance for the COW. And human emotions we were given from God, and there are any places in the Bible where sadness, anger, sorrow, and grief are used. Emotions are how we deal with sin and also how God deals with people and their sin…..
Oh indeed, Moses? Is this, in fact, why our “merely” human sadness is so very important to our LORD and why we Believers are commanded to make it important to us as well? “Rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep,” Romans 12:15 says. Psalm 56:8 says that El Shaddai captures our tears in a bottle.
“When one member is in pain ALL the members suffer with it,” 1 Corinthians 12:26 says.
Are the COW elders weeping and in pain with all the heartbroken families who have lost their loved ones to twisted doctrine? Why not? Isn’t this Biblical?
You’re not an ascetic, Moses. Stop your grandiose religiosity and quit acting like the physical human realm doesn’t matter to El Shaddai. It matters. Immensely. That’s why he housed our spirits in these finite jars of clay, rather than in teflon and bubble wrap.
You sign every comment “Love in Christ,” yet your words are callous, cruel, and snooty – the opposite of the fruit of the Holy Spirit.
“The most dangerous liars are those who think they are telling the truth” ~ this was a good quote I saw today and it fits CoW well.
Yes but of course they attempt to justify their lying. Love how the pride is coming out more and more with the long list of “works” that were posted that apparently separate them from us because they are so righteous. Anything not in moderation can be a sin including Godly things! How’s that street witnessing goin for ya COW?
Proverbs 16:18
“18 Pride goes before destruction,
and a haughty spirit before a fall.”
This could be what’s happening. That last answer from “moses” concerning Greg Gordon was ‘over the top’!
Man, I wish there was a “like” button for some of these posts!
Amen!
If anything these posts by Moses are bringing them closer to destruction….. Prayers are needed more than ever!
I’ve been nauseas a long time over the abduction of people into the cow … Moses never answered my question above he picks and chooses … I’m not sad I’m Angry and with Righteous Anger
Yes he does. Many that I have asked which would require a pretty direct reply get skipped over. Imagine.
I can just see Moses sitting there with his mouth widely ajar when he comes across a question that he does not know how to answer. He sold out to a bunch of little men who are equipped with nothing more than ego and evil. Quite the quandary for a man of his age and supposed intelligence…
^^ Well said. Yes. Like being held hostage.
Yes, Lorayne, I do appreciate your choice of the word, hostage. You are absolutely correct that “Moses” appears to be just as much of a hostage as Catherine Grove, his daughter, Preethi, and many of the others who are being held by the cow. There are sadly, many intelligent people in the world who are willing to give in to people whom they view as more powerful and closer to God. Moses taught his daughter well and now he is following in her footsteps instead of taking the lead.
Well now, another wonderful thread. My turn to weigh in.
Hi Moses. Let met put something out there you mentioned earlier that I totally disagree with. I’ll quote it for ya.
I hope that the Lord will turn Paul Washer’s heart towards Christ by loving the precious saints who have been washed by the blood of Christ that are members of the Church of Wells.
So, if I understand you right, for us to be turned toward Christ, we need to love the saints of CoW? So, CoW is an appointed “middle man” of sorts? Appointed by whom? Sorry, I thought that was Jesus’ job that he took care of on the cross. You know, something about how He is going to sit on the right hand of God and intercede on our behalf.
Let’s remove CoW for a moment and suppose that you are correct that we need to love the Saints in the church. What about the saints in MY home church? What about the Saints I have been blessed with in MY life? Do you know them? Have you seen my love for them?
No? Ok.
To say that we need to love *someone* or *something* other than Christ to get to Him is idolatry at the core. This is heresy and preaching a false gospel.
Remember the words of Romans 8:39 Moses…
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Nothing can separate us from Christ; that includes you, Morris and his elders, and the rest of CoW.
Good day sir.
Dear Q, To hate the bride of Christ in the Church of Wells is to hate Jesus Christ. To persecute them is the same as persecuting Christ. Just as God told Cain, “If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.” God is calling people not to murder Christ by their unjust hatred and persecution of His children. You might say that the church members rather, are the ones doing that to other Christians, but you are not understanding righteous judgment….the church members are righteously warning people who say they are christians, but by their fruit they are in fact enemies of the cross of Christ. In love, the church members righteously judge when they do not see the fruit of Christ’s righteousness, so that people may repent and have peace with Christ. They are not calling people to idolize them, but to turn to Christ. Yes, you need to love the saints in your church, and if you see them in a backslidden state, the right, loving thing for you to do would be to warn them of the danger of eternal damnation. Yes, nothing can separate a person from Christ when he/she abides in Christ. Abiding in Christ means that we look to Him for every aspect of our lives: for provision of daily needs and sustenance, satisfaction and pleasure, for the present and future hope of salvation when Christ returns to take His people to Himself, working out our salvation with fear and trembling in the wisdom of Christ, surrendering to God’s Holy Spirit and turning from willful unrepentant sin. We will never be sinlessly perfect, but continual unrepentant willful sin leads to damnation in hell. Christ calls us to return to Him as our first love, to wake up from slumber, and to not be lukewarm in our relationship with Him. False christianity gives security to the person living in sin while living to please the flesh rather than God’s indwelling Holy Spirit. Love in Christ, Moses.
You’ve answered “Tarka” but you addressed “Q” (?)
No. This isn’t true. However much they might believe the doctrine they created is sanctified and holy, God’s voice whispering in their ears, and however much they might believe themselves right – Church of Wells doesn’t have exclusive authority to Jesus Christ and God.
Quite simply, Sean Morris and his elders, you and your daughter Preethi, cannot co-opt Jesus, God, and 3,000 years of religion and spirituality for yourselves.
The fact that you seem to believe this – enough to put it on the internet – is troubling.
Moses, it just doesn’t work this way. You can’t wave your hand and pronounce it so. I would suggest you seek counsel of men you can trust that you knew before meeting Sean Morris. But you’ve run everyone off and don’t seem to have any of those relationships left.
Does it bother anyone that these “elders” are self ordained? That in itself is troubling!
Hi Moses, and thanks for the reply… though I thoroughly disagree.
Here’s your quote:
To hate the bride of Christ in the Church of Wells is to hate Jesus Christ. To persecute them is the same as persecuting Christ.
Ok, when has anyone said anything about hate? I can say with 99.9% certainty that the parents and loved ones of CoW members do not hate them.
Disagree? Yes.
Hurt? Yes.
Sad? Yes.
Righteously angry? Yes.
Disappointed? Yes.
Confused? Yes.
But hate? Not ever. I challenge you to find a single post from the past few years that declares explicit hatred toward the personhood of a CoW member. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that you will find none. In fact, if we truly hated the CoW members, we wouldn’t be spending all of this time begging and pleading to speak to our loved ones!
I am going to skip over your accusation that CoW is “persecuted” because Q already addressed that in another post.
Which brings me to another point. You claim that CoW members desire an audience with their “backslidden” loved ones and are constantly burdened by our sinful state.
If this is true, then why is it that I have reached out three times in the past year to my loved one in CoW to no avail? I even spent some time in Texas hoping to see him/her. Not to fight, not to argue, but to simply hear with my ears and see with my eyes how he/she has been doing.
If you’re going to give me the line of “pearls before swine” or “I am unrepentant” I can assure you that both are false. My loved one has no idea of my spiritual state, nor has he/she ever cared to ask.
So I ask you Moses… why is it that you say one thing, yet they do another? Do they truly desire an audience, or is that just another piece of separatist rhetoric?
There is more I want to comment on about your recent post, but Q beat me to it (like co-opting Christ).
I look forward to your reply.
Dear Tarka, I do not know about your specific situation, and if/why your loved one does not want to meet with you. I do know that it is not wise to meet someone that might cause a person to stumble in faith. For example, it might not be wise for a drug addict who has been freed from his/her addiction to meet a former friend who might lead the person into the addiction again. In most situations however, we should be willing to maintain relationships as long as they do not cause us to stumble in our walk with the Lord. I would be happy to find out from your loved one if there might be an opportunity, in the will of God to meet you. I encourage you to remove any wall of separation there might be between you and your loved one, so that there could be a healthy interaction centered around Christ. Love in Christ, Moses.
Well, I readjng Tarkas post and Moses’ reply of talking himself in circles and contradictions it seems He doesn’t really know the half of what really goes on in Wells. He is totally deceived. I mean come on, to trust in a few men a thousand miles away and be convicted all of a sudden of the way you’ve been living and believing for the last 20 years. And to shut out and not listen to your own elders of your church. Please God, remove the blinders on the Davids eyes to see truth.
Really Moses, are the people of COW so weak in their faith that meeting with other believers who don’t agree with every issue, is gonna harm them and make them fall away?? Wow, I have been able to maintain friendships with my unbelieving friends, neighbors with different religious backgrounds, and all family all my life and it hasn’t affected my faith in Christ or my actions to follow Him above all else. Talk about alienation and prideful behavior….
I do know that it is not wise to meet someone that might cause a person to stumble in faith.
You, nor my loved one in CoW, have any basis to say I will cause one to stumble. I am confident and upright in my walk with Christ, evidenced by my fruit and my fellowship with other believers. Comparing the situation to that of a drug addict is quite inaccurate and borderline insulting.
In most situations however, we should be willing to maintain relationships as long as they do not cause us to stumble in our walk with the Lord.
Clearly this MOST business isn’t the case. MOST parents and loved ones want relationships with their children regardless of their affiliation with CoW. I can’t speak for others here, but I would even be comfortable with my loved one staying in CoW so long as I could have an active relationship in his/her life. MOST parents would not ever want their children to stumble. So, who is this “MOST” you are referring to? Because clearly MOST parents and loved ones have been shut out. See: Doctrine of Judgement.
I would be happy to find out from your loved one if there might be an opportunity
No thanks. He/she is an adult and can contact me if he/she wishes. I, and the other parents and loved ones here, do not need an intermediary to connect us.
I encourage you to remove any wall of separation there might be between you and your loved one
Again, can’t you see in my last response that that is exactly what I, as have other parents, have done?
The point I am trying to prove to you is that this whole “CoW desires an audience” thing is baloney. Parents and loved ones HAVE removed walls of separation. Eager pleas, phone calls, visits, etc. to no avail just to see the face of a lost loved one have been in vein. If a wall of separation has been built, it’s been constructed by the hands of CoW and their leadership.
This was definitely composed by someone else’s hand. Nice try, “Moses”.
Why do you say that? Grammar and syntax seem to be right on. Maybe he just forgot to put his name in the box…
“Slanders” and the internet
None of which is found on the internet.
What is on the internet?
• News articles (recognized media outlets), journal articles
• The group’s own materials – multiple websites, blogs, videos, sermons and writings. Thousands of pages.
• Hundreds of hours of street preaching, testimonies, and professional-quality video productions denouncing churches and sinners.
More Church of Wells material than anything else.
Sean Morris, April 2014 — “From the beginning of our move here to Wells, the slander, gossip, and hear-say was incessant. There was talk of us burning down the town, stock-piling weapons, and taking over the town from the get-go, with many other conspiracies. As we walked the streets for personal prayer, as we sang songs and hymns for personal edification,…we were seen as madmen from the start …”
Does that sound like “a few unhappy parents” to you? Does that sound like “internet slander”?
Dear Q, These lies were shared with us by people who called us, and subverted us by their lies. Even the writer of this blog has labeled the church people as murderers. Love in Christ, Moses.
1 John 3:10-12 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.
Someone called you and told you these things. That’s not the same as reading something on the internet. As I said, those things you’ve said won’t be found anywhere on the internet, in fact.
And you believed it. Now you feel betrayed because you believe it has turned out not to be true. That’s on you. That says something about your discretion, discernment and judgement.
First of all, I wouldn’t have just assumed it was all true in the first place. I would have considered the possibilities and withheld deciding until I had more data. Second, I would apply scientific method, based on empirical and measurable evidence. Third – repeatibility. Do multiple unrelated and neutral sources say the same thing? Fourth, what other explanations and data are there?
In fact, there are sources of reliable information on the internet as well as in person. Some neutral, some invested, some interpretive, but all fact-based and subject to principles of reasoning.
If you choose to ignore other reliable sources, then or now, that speaks volume about you and your credibility.
These young men made decisions that caused the death of someone else’s baby.
Sean Morris, April 2014 — “From the beginning of our move here to Wells, the slander, gossip, and hear-say was incessant. There was talk of us burning down the town, stock-piling weapons, and taking over the town from the get-go, with many other conspiracies. As we walked the streets for personal prayer, as we sang songs and hymns for personal edification,…we were seen as madmen from the start …”
The three young men and their followers moved to Wells from Arlington. They blew off common courtesy, were rude to their neighbors, crossed boundaries of acceptable behaviour. P@ssed in their nest and now complain they don’t like the way it feels. Even while they loudly salute themselves for their bad manners and alienating others.
You aren’t being persecuted for being religious; you’re being condemned for being foolishly mean and ugly.
Interesting that “Moses” suddenly uses the noun “us” in this post.
“Dear Q, These lies were shared with us by people who called us, and subverted us by their lies.”
We thought that you were not present when Baby Faith was left helpless, to die? WHO is REALLY speaking here?? Care to be honest for once?
Dear We See Through You, They are not drugging people, stockpiling arms and planning to flee the country! They believed in the power of prayer to heal baby Faith according to God’s will. They said that they had not realized that the baby was in danger of death. Love in Christ, Moses.
Cain – married his sister. Abraham – married his sister and told her to lie about it. Abraham’s brother married his niece. Lot’s two daughters were “with child by their father” after getting him drunk. Amram married his aunty, who gave birth to Moses. Amnon fell in love with his sister Thomar, and then raped her. Two years later, his brother killed him.
What’s the point, Moses?
II Kings 13:8-14 “Come lie with me, my sister. She answered him: Do not so, my brother, do not force me: for no such thing must be done in Israel. Do not thou this folly. But he would not hearken to her prayers, but being stronger overpowered her and lay with her.”
Moses-
I too have been personally called a murderer, by you. No doubt, you probably don’t think it is slander whenever you say something or the COW says something. No, but you are more than willing to repeatedly call me a murderer and insist I am guilty of shedding the blood of the righteous saints. You are more than willing to accuse others of sin but fail to see your own sin.
Where is the dead body that you accused me of being murdering?
The COW actually have a real dead body caused directly by their actions or failure to act. This is all because they were too prideful to call 911. Baby Faith’s blood cries out to God from the ground.
Interesting that you bring up Cain and Abel from Genesis 4. Did you forget that Cain refused to take responsibility for Abel’s death?
8 One day Cain suggested to his brother, “Let’s go out into the fields.” And while they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother, Abel, and killed him.
9 Afterward the Lord asked Cain, “Where is your brother? Where is Abel?”
“I don’t know,” Cain responded. “Am I my brother’s guardian?”
10 But the Lord said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground! 11 Now you are cursed and banished from the ground, which has swallowed your brother’s blood. 12 No longer will the ground yield good crops for you, no matter how hard you work! From now on you will be a homeless wanderer on the earth.”
13 Cain replied to the Lord, “My punishment is too great for me to bear! 14 You have banished me from the land and from your presence; you have made me a homeless wanderer. Anyone who finds me will kill me!”
You and the COW have earned the reputation you have of being deceivers, being prideful, refusing to take responsibility for your own actions, and constantly blaming others. You act like irresponsible children living in adult bodies. Grow up. The COW are facing God’s wrath for their own sin.
What happened to the godly reputation you used to have 3 years ago? Moses, a godly man that was gentle, dedicated, and inspiring. Mercy, who’s name actually matched her godly character. Why would you willingly destroy your godly reputation? I admired your family and I had great joy about knowing the entire faithful David family would be influencing my family over the years. Your family is indeed missed, but as long as you and the COW bear the constant sin of pride, deception, idolatry, blasphemy, then your teaching simply cannot be trusted.
Dear Keith, There is no value in a “reputation,” at the expense of souls perishing! It was really shameful to see the damnable condition of people, and having kept silent at the expense of their destruction. People who keep silent at the perishing of souls without warning them, are indeed murderers. During my time in my old church, most young people “asked Jesus into their heart” and foresook Christ within the first few months after leaving home. One girl shot herself to death, another boy shot himself, but did not die, fornication was rampant among the young people, most did not understand what salvation truly meant, and yet, they were given the false security. The men of reputation are “hypocrites,” quite like the priest and the Levite, who crossed the road, not bothering with the half-naked, dying man! Was John the Baptist a proud man because he called the religious leaders, “you brood of vipers”? Was Stephen also proud because he said, “you stiff-necked people” while under the influence of God’s Holy Spirit? How about Jesus? Was he a proud man too, when He said “you white-washed tombs,” exposing the hypocrisy of the religious authorities? You blame the men of God from the Church of Wells for the death of baby Faith, when they trusted in the power of prayer, in faith to pray for the healing of the child….you blame them for trusting in God more than the doctors…..how can you call yourself a Christian? The issue is not whether seeking medical care is appropriate, or not…the issue is where one’s confidence is, what does a person of faith default to? The church members have stated that they are not against seeking medical care, and will choose to take this care as appropriate, in the way the Lord leads them to. It is a shame that you blame them for the loss of baby Faith, for whom they prayed with eagerness and burden, and tender, Godly love. Love in Christ, Moses.
Psalm 20:7 Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the Lord our God.
No one blames them for trusting in God more than in doctors. It isn’t necessary to even say that. God and doctors are not mutually exclusive. You can have both. Most people do.
“Some people of faith forego standard therapeutic measures and pray for miraculous intervention. This seems comparable, in my mind, to praying for one’s crops to flourish without cultivating or watering the seedlings. I defend the right of adults to forego standard therapy for themselves, whether based on their faith or personal values. I am very reluctant, however, to do so when an adult chooses this path for someone else, particularly a child, if the probable result will be death or disability.” –Robert Orr, M.D.
“Everyone has the right to faith healing for themselves—as a matter of basic privacy as well as religious freedom. But in a case of serious illness, a child’s right to life trumps a parent’s right to religion. Faith healing should complement, not compete with, proper medical care.” — John Witte, Jr., professor, Emory Law School
A member of your own family recieved critical emergency mecial intervention, which saved her life. Your daughter Preethi and yourself, both believed it was the Lord’s blessing at the time. When resources were provided to cover substantial medical bills, you believed that was the Lord at work again and felt even more blessed.
Do you now believe it wasn’t the Lord after all? Don’t let someone else change that belief. You know.
Dear Q, God used medical care to prolong the physical life of my mother at the age of 88, but God used medical care to take the physical life of my brother at the age of 27, and my father at the age of 39. Praise be to His Holy, Matchless Name! An 8-year old girl to whom Preethi taught the Word of God has been diagnosed with liver cancer, God can heal her if He chooses to, even though the doctors may not be able to! Here is a link to this precious child’s (she is saved by the blood of her Lord Jesus Christ, and is an inspiraton to me!) video! God might be using the excellent medical care in Mayo Clinic to heal her, but she said that it is ok even if God does not heal her, since she will be with Him! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezdyoG7ZuIY&feature=youtu.be
Love in Christ, Moses.
Dear Q, I trust that God will use this little child to lead many to the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ, for the praise and glory of His Name. God is already using her situation to bring revival among the Iowa Christians. Love in Christ, Moses.
Moses,
I AM DISGUSTED, ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTED BY YOUR FRIVOLOUS AND CALLOUS ANSWER ABOUT BABY FAITH’S NEGLIGENT DEATH! AT LEAST THE PEOPLE WHO YOU MENTIONED WERE ABLE TO HAVE THE MEDICAL CARE OF A DOCTOR OR SURGEON WHEN THEY WERE ILL! THAT LITTLE, INNOCENT NEWBORN BABY THAT WAS SO PRECIOUS AND HELPLESS DIED BECAUSE SHE DID NOT RECEIVE ANY MEDICAL CARE! SHE DID NOT HAVE THE OPTION OF GOD’S HEALING HANDS ALONGSIDE THOSE OF A COMPETENT DOCTOR, YOU FOOL. My prayer is that God brings down this egotistical, wicked, repugnant cult very, very soon, and that He sees to it that lawyers and judges and GOOD people end this madness now! You really are a piece of work, Moses David. A fine piece of work, indeed.
Yes and that little girls response should be the response if you are a believer. So glad that her parents are giving God the chance to heal using medical care as well as without. God should not be put to the test by limiting his ability to use other people in the healing process.
Dear We See You Through, It is not a foolish thing to defend the cause of the innocent, and the fatherless. The cost will be high, but it would be worth it all. Love in Christ, Moses.
Yes Moses and you are not defending the innocent so point taken!
Well, you’ve got an answer for it. But it doesn’t make a darn bit of sense. Too bad. When someone feels that committed to faith healing that they delegitimize medical care and doctors, while _still_ saying they have no problem with medical care, I imagine they must have really good reasons and I want to hear it.
But I guess not.
May God teach you not to roll other people’s children under the bus.
Yes we are to trust God above all else but God also created us with common sense and he uses the medical profession to fulfill his plan many times. Saying that God is telling you to not seek medical help when a baby is turning blue to absurd and so not right. We are to protect our children. And really, how many times have you seen a person raised from the dead (after Jesus returned to heaven). ?? This was a sign and wonder used in Bible times primarily in the presence of unbelievers to show the power of God and turn people to faith and to authenticate the apostles because they were given the authority to heal etc. Can God raise someone from the dead in our world? Most certainly! but for the most part that isn’t the way he reveals himself today. Experiences are not what we are to use to prove our faith. You are testing God when you let a baby die and then say that God is going to raise him back to life. Very unbiblical! And to not confess that you made a mistake and admit that you should have got medical attention is wrong. I would have much more respect for the COW if I saw them confess their sins before God and all those that they wronged. Take responsibility for your actions! Stop judging other believers! Stop your street yelling and judgment! (Can you tell me how many people you are bringing to faith in Christ with your witnessing techniques? What does that tell you?) And get a job and stop claiming your holiness over work, the world, and everyone else! I’m just sick over the deception they are living and forcing on others. and they call themselves Christians?
Dear Guest, I have met many church members who were saved through their street (judgmental) preaching. Don’t discount the work of God among them simply because their methods do not meet your criteria, or what is considered as the standards of the church. Most of the church members are broken people with contrite spirit…..I have seen many of them crying in prayer out of brokenness, asking for forgiveness. Love in Christ, Moses.
Hmm and how many are converted off the streets of wells? It’s all about relationships …..Jesus ate with sinners and spent time with them, and then preached to multitudes in a loving way. When was the last time that the COW served the community to show their love instead of judgement? Maybe served them food or gave to the needy there? All biblical applications
I am not saying that that type of witnessing should never be used but you have to have discernment to the company you are speaking to. To treat everyone even believers with that kind of judgement and “hell fire and brimstone” preaching is very distasteful! It will turn more people away than will draw them to christ. You have NO way of knowing who is saved and who is not so don’t treat everyone with the same type of preaching. Until you get to know someone on a personal level you do not even know what they need to hear…..
“I have seen many of them crying in prayer out of brokenness, asking for forgiveness.”
So you HAVE seen for yourself this happening during their typical judgmental street preaching? And how often. Funny how no one has seen this….and how any times have you been to Wells. Not sure you can honestly defend these encounters….
Ahh you have shed some light on why the COW acts the way they do, because reputation means nothing as long as they can justify they are trying to save souls…….. So that’s why they break laws, hold people captive, act rudely when talked to, cut families off because they don’t agree with all their methods, get into fights in the streets, argue and yell at people instead of being ” slow to speak”, not admit their wrongdoings, blame others for their livelihood being taken away, neglect children when sick, and so on…..
The end justifies the means huh??
Not true, Guest, the families cut them off by the hostility shown towards the church. Love in Christ, Moses.
Why is it then from what I reading and seeing live videos that the COW is not allowing their own members any contact with their families and when the families come to Wells to find them, they are turned away and not allowed to find their children? It goes both ways, if they are so loving towards people they should be welcoming. You can believe it or not Moses but the COW has cut everyone off to live their “righteous” life. Not sure why you can’t see that when believers everyone can…. You are in denial and have been deceived.
This made me think of if your children start hanging out with ‘bad guys’. The negative influence on them becomes more and more apparent. They get sassy, disrespectful, distant and more distant..the gang takes over as family. This is the same thing except they are wolves in sheep’s clothing.
Like Chris cut himself off by telling you the COW was bad? Yet you maintain contact with him, commenting and liking his facebook posts? Why is that?
What a heartless, insensitive, and cold post! To bring up the suicides and attempted suicides or children from Gidly families…… Do you really know what was going on in these kids minds? This is very tragic for this church and these families. However God always works for the good for those who love Him. I’m sure He has received the glory in all this and is doing wonderful things. But to degrade a church and their beliefs on the basis of a few hurting teens is so wrong. God uses and teaches us through experiences like this. We all go astray and God brings us back to where he wants us (by the way which is very common with young people) and read your Bible it’s full of people who fell away and later repented.
Dear Guest, Most people are in a fallen state because their leaders have given them a false assurance based upon physical works (asking Jesus into their heart, raising their hand, saying that they believe in Jesus Christ, without knowing what that means, etc.). It is truly cruel of these “men of reputation” to demonstrate hatred of such magnitude that people are damned to hell because there is not a shepherd willing to stand in the gap to truly love them from the heart. Terrible situation all around the churches everywhere…..even in my 27 years of living in the US, I have seen the church fall precipitously, people claiming to be christian, and practicing every vice under the sun, and committing every kind of adultery possible with the world around them…..SHAME ON THE RELIGIOUS LEADERS OF THIS GREAT NATION! Love in Christ, Moses.
And shame on the religious leaders of the COW!
….you blame them for trusting in God more than the doctors…..how can you call yourself a Christian? The issue is not whether seeking medical care is appropriate, or not…the issue is where one’s confidence is, what does a person of faith default to?
We call ourselves Christians because we believe in the Gospel of Christ. How we feel about medical care is just as unimportant as how we feel about electric guitars and pipe organs. It’s a pointless debate that does not affect one’s salvation.
There is no “either/or” debate between faith in God and faith in doctors. I have faith IN God that he will work THROUGH doctors and the gifts they have been given.
After all, wasn’t Luke a physician?
Exactly. Thanks.
Subvert: undermine the power and authority of (an established system or institution).
Subverted you, Moses? Subverted the Church of Wells? I don’t understand who the voice is and what was “subverted” by a phone call that said the group was stockpiling weapons and preparing to flee the country.
Behold, children are a gift of the LORD, The fruit of the womb is a reward. Psalms 127:3
Why would you let a baby die? Why would you punish a helpless defenseless newborn? What God wants you to do that?
When your own beliefs say a baby is unsaved and not eligible for salvation, why would you fail to do everything in your power to keep a baby alive?
This baby didn’t die because because of a lack of faith, or because of evil spirits, or because of Satan, or because her mama didn’t pray hard enough. This baby died because Sean Morris and Ryan Ringnald didn’t want her to have medical care.
How hypocritical that young men describe themselves as leaders and shepherds of a flock; want to be in charge, hold authority over others, give orders and to be obeyed, even about women giving birth (something they would know nothing about!), and yet refuse to take responsibility. Refuse to acknowledge outcomes of their own actions.
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
With such a prolific writer as Sean Morris is and the sheer volume of policy manuals and study guides governing Church of Wells, it defies explanation that he did not write his own Statement of Faith.
Not only is it a boilerplate Baptist statement of faith pirated from someone else’s composition, but it doesn’t accurately reflect a true synopsis of their faith and beliefs.
Dear Q, He has the marks of Christ upon his life. The testimony of Christ’s work in him is his doctrinal statement…..continual abiding faith is accompanied by Holy Spirit led action, which includes the nullification of the flesh in the resurrection power of Christ. To whom much is given, much is expected, God will use him mightily in the coming days, for the praise of His glorious Name. No trouble, or persecution will separate him from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus his Lord. I am blessed to have him as my son-in-law! Love in Christ, Moses.
What?
“… God will use him mightily in the coming days, for the praise of His glorious Name.”
This comes across as an exceedingly ominous statement about Sean Morris, Moses David’s son-in-law. I really, really hope that somebody other than the CCPD, is keeping an eye on this cult and its “elders”. They have already negligently killed one newborn baby, what is to stop them from doing their resurrection experiment on someone else?
So Moses is admitting that God is not using Sean mightily now. I would have to agree. He is not being used now to the praise of the Glorious One. Anyone can see through this false doctrine….
Sean has marks alright but certainly not Christlike ones……..
Bingo, Guest!!!
That woman found in the meridian on 69 is going to be connected to these people somehow
Dear Anonymous, Is that speculation, or, do you have some basis? Love in Christ, Moses.
HogwashANDBlasphemy is what the C.O.W. Is Nothing holy nothing sacred just a group of miserable egotistical men bringing a whole lot of misery to a whole lot of peoples lives. I don’t see anything good about the C.O.W. NOTHING AT ALL
Moses, you have yet to respond to my question – Why does the Church of Wells use government assistance? You have said they are such “hardworking” “highly intelligent” people who have many different businesses (millwork, computer, art, tree cutting, construction etc) that could become wealthy if they choose. WHY DO TEXANS PAY TO SUPPORT THIS GROUP THROUGH TAX DOLLARS WHILR THE CoW collect government assistance ( food stamps, medical assistance etc).
Dear Stacy, They are eligible to utilize anything that the government provides to is citizens. I do not believe that they use the resources of the government in an excessive way. In fact, I would bet that they utilize far lower amount of resources than an average American citizen….they do not send their children to public schools. In contrast, the people fighting against them bitterly are the ones using government resources by filing false police complaints, requesting welfare checks, causing “a small town with a big punch” type of rallies, trying to violently attack them physically during their street preaching, etc. They are simply peaceful, law-abiding citizens, who are loved by the law enforcement officials because many of them know the truth about them, and the error in the false complaints. Christ is a stumbling block to many, and the multitudes of sinful, wicked people are bent on persecuting them just as they did to Christ. Love in Christ, Moses.
So are you acknowledging Moses that the people who affiliate themselves with the group called Church of Wells are utilizing and benefitting from government food assistance ??? Don’t lie Moses to protect them …. Does that include your daughter a past Phd candidate and your son-in-law son of a rich wealthy chevron oil executive … If so I would seriously consider that fraudulent and abusive use of the system intended to help those in poverty who have TRUE difficulty helping themselves ? Question : So do the church of wells members have difficulty helping themselves ??? Are they disabled ? Are they lacking in the ability to care independently for themselves their families and their children ? If so why ? Most all of the young people I have read about in the cow came from extensive well educated college backgrounds. If they are now not able to provide for themselves since becoming affiliated with the cow living in poverty levels and are depending on government resources for basic living needs isn’t that a shameful use of their gifts and talents and being a burden to society ?
The interactive and individual effects of orexin A and neurotensin in the brain on spontaneous physical activity. Not riveting. A science-fair-project approach, proving out seven pages of references of other people’s work.
In a nutshell – people who fidget, walk around, stand a lot instead of sitting, tend not to gain weight when they over-eat. Men who sit a lot get fat butts. Conclusion: true.
Maybe Preethi could tutor at the school or something? Um, never mind…
So are you acknowledging Moses that the people who affiliate themselves with the group called Church of Wells are utilizing and benefitting from government food assistance ??? Don’t lie Moses to protect them …. Does that include your daughter a past Phd candidate and your son-in-law son of a rich wealthy chevron oil executive … If so I would seriously consider that fraudulent and abusive use of the system intended to help those in poverty who have TRUE difficulty helping themselves ? Question : So do the church of wells members have difficulty helping themselves ??? Are they disabled ? Are they lacking in the ability to care independently for themselves their families and their children ? If so why ? Most all of the young people I have read about in the cow came from extensive well educated college backgrounds. If they are now not able to provide for themselves since becoming affiliated with the cow living in poverty levels and are depending on government resources for basic living needs isn’t that a shameful use of their gifts and talents and being a burden to society ?
Truth, Moses ABSOLUTELY ADMITS that the Church of Wells is using Government Assistance that is intended for those who are in need These KIDS ARE NOT in need. This life style is a choice and their inability to work is also a choice. They certainly are being fraudulent (are we really surprised?) they have lied to their own members, lied to the women of this group (arranging marriages per God) and keeping these young girls CONSTANTLY pregnant to help “FUND” their organization. The CoW elders have lied to Families, Law Enforcement, Government, God and themselves!!! Their entire existence is a LIE!!!
Moses, once again you have “danced” around the question. I will take your lack of being able to justify or explain the Church of Wells using Food Stamps & Medicaid as confirmation that they are LAZY…these kids are certainly NOT DISABLED and any financial hardship that they claim to have is due to plain old NOT WANTING TO work! Moses, are you sure the R & R was not closed down because they were using their government assistance inappropriately?? EVERYTHING is starting to crumble… It is only a matter of time before you and the men of the CoW will be wearing ORANGE! I have one word for all of you – CRIMINALS!!!
Waitingfortruthlightjustice Cowmen in ORANGE … Heard tonight there maybe one of them wearing a jail suit tonight …. And seriously praying all these abusive manipulating men will all be locked up sooner than later …
Oh my word, is this getting deeper and deeper for the COW it what? Government assistance really? You’ve got to be kidding………
The tables are turning for the COW….
Proverbs 18:9
9 Whoever is slack in his work
is a brother to him who destroys.
Proverbs 19:15
15 Slothfulness casts into a deep sleep,
and an idle person will suffer hunger.
2 Thessalonians 3:10-12
10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.” 11 We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies. 12 Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat.
Moses, the SNAP program was designed to help people in need. People who could not and do not have the MEANS to provide adequate nutrition for their families. What COW is doing is abusing the purpose of the program and taking away from families and children that truly do not have the means to put a meal on the table. These men in COW are able to work and earn more than the amount they are that places their families below the poverty level. If, as you say, they live this way because of their calling to God to preach and minister instead of work, then their CHOICE to do so should not come with a government hand out. The men can earn more as you said before, and it would not be because they place the value of money above the Lord, but because it is what is needed to care for and feed to children they seem to have no problem bringing into this world every 9 months. I am sure our good Lord is looking down and is very displeased these men who are healthy, able bodied men are not earning what it takes to care for their families and are instead taking away from people who are truly in need. If they are already unable to care for their family and unable to provide the food and assistance then why do they keep having more babies? If you can not feed the ones you have the goal is not to reproduce more to make your benefits go up. You should be ashamed as all of COW who stands and says that God provides everything they need because if that were true they would not swipe their Lonestar cards for food. And do not tell me God provided that. Congress provided that as a means to help the underprivileged and the poor living in poverty- and not by choice. COW lives the way they do, as you say a humble and meager means…as a choice. I am sure there are many many families out there who lost a job or the main wage earner passed away and they had to rely on government assistance to put food on the table. Because people like Sean Morris decide not to work and instead spend their days reading bible verses is not a reason to collect welfare. I am sure Charity Enterprises makes sure to pay their good hard working men just right under the limits for the family to still get benefits. But these men, with college educations don’t have to be out clipping lawns- and you know it. It is fraudulent. It is a scam and it is stealing from the American people. It is a sin to misuse the program. And I thank you for spelling it all out for us, their ability to work, their ability to earn riches and their choice not to work so they can preach. I am sure the federal government will be glad to know they are able to work and able to provide for their families and chose not to.
Regarding people filing false police reports. It was Richard Trudeau himself who filed the first welfare concern call to Cherokee County. So if you want to point fingers at false police reports, might want to ask ole Rick. Wait, I think he may be held up in New York at the minute.
You speak of peaceful law abiding citizens- well, for one see above. Rick Trudeau was jailed the first time for telling his ex she was going to die and he knew the day. Is that a peaceful, law abiding citizen? At least New York state police did not think so, nor do they now. Jake Gardner was jailed in Gregg County because he and several others did not pay for entry into a Christian event and then proceeded to disrupt the event and then refused to leave even though they never paid to be there. Is that peaceful law abiding citizens. No. And Gregg County did not think so. What would God think of the good COWboys stealing their way into a charity event for God? Probably very displeased.
They are not loved by law enforcement anymore than anyone else. Law enforcement is supposed to enforce the law and while I will withhold my comments about Cherokee County I will say that when they have gone to other states and counties they have been held accountable to the law. Angelina County did not take kindly to them disrupting the peace on a high school campus, even though according to your son in law they NEVER focus their attention on minors. Then why do they go to high school campuses and high school Christian events and have to be, at times forcibly removed for breaking the law????
And yes, they received some good ole East Texas enforcement when they focused their hatred filled going to hell going to die hellfire on children. And do not tell me they did not mean to. They did not get punched until they refused to stop telling the KIDS they were going to hell and going to die. You were not there so you do not get to say what happened. And your son in law saying they never target kids and can’t help if they were in the crowd is a lie. If that were true then explain why they have criminal trespass warnings at several schools whose attendance is mostly minors!
We are giving you facts Moses. Facts I pray and hope that you may let sink in and I hope it doesn’t need 20 years to marinate.
It’s really sad that they are targeting young people when they are so impressionable and figuring out their own faith. They know that they can steal them away, brainwash, and deceive them at this age. Why are they not targeting senior homes? I mean after all, they are closer to the end of their life and need to hear they are going to hell…..
Dear Guest, All people need Christ, old and young alike, rich and poor alike, sick and healthy alike, Baptists and Catholics alike, Calvinists and Armenians alike, educated and illiterate alike, Texans and Californians alike, Arkansans and Church of Wells members alike. Who has known the mind of Christ, except those who are in the Word and in the Spirit? May Christ lead us while there is yet time. Love in Christ, Moses.
This one sure gave me a laugh. Thanks, I needed it.
Moses said…
They are simply peaceful, law-abiding citizens, who are loved by the law enforcement officials because many of them know the truth about them
Law abiding? Have you seen the arrest records of these guys? Countless trespassing arrests (including at a local high school to talk to minors). How about Trudeau’s arrest in New York?
What’s worse than your blatant disregard for the truth Moses is the fact that CoW acknowledges and praises their “persecution for the sake of gospel” by breaking the law and going to jail.
The only thing the local law enforcement “love” about these guys is the fact that they give the small town police officer something to do.
I have never met a more delusional man in my life!
Please.
Dear Tarka, Why do you choose to hate when you can do right? Will God not accept you when you do right? The right thing to do is to love, and not hate. If not, sin is crouching at your doorstep…it desires to have you, but you must overcome it. Love in Christ, Moses.
She is already overcoming it…by directly confronting your blatant LIES. How dare you twist the Scripture to fit your own distorted delusions.
Who hates is the COW. They hate God because they hate the Family that God created and ordained. No one is hating anybody but the COW Hating mothers and fathers and that is because they have a madman as their leader. That is the Truth of the matter Moses.
It’s very sad, Moses, but it does appear that you have lost your ability to think rationally. You are supporting a bunch of CRIMINALS and talking about them as if they are holier than thou. By the way, is your daughter on food stamps, too?
I believe that’s the oddest response I’ve seen so far by this group, anywhere in any forum.
In response to the question of faith-healing, belief in prayer and God with respect to medical care, accountability for a baby that dies from lack of medical care, and so on, Moses David posts a link to a random video of a little girl’s talent show performance.
He says the little girl is “saved,” she has cancer, receiving “excellent care” at Mayo Clinic, and that she’s okay with death “since she will be with Him!”
She’s not Moses’ child. She’s not a “Church of Wells” child.
1. Does this have something to do with Church of Wells? No.
2. What does this have to do with Sean Morris’s doctrine and teachings? Nothing.
3. Why did Moses post this? I don’t know. It sounds like a family somewhere is making good decisions about a sick child.
4. Posting a link to YouTube video of someone else’s child is stunningly bad form. Unwise. Predatorial, if Moses didn’t get the parents’ permission. You just don’t do it.
Where’s the lesson? It’s a bundle of schizophrenic contradiction. Moses pronounces the little girl saved and I’m sure her parents think so too. But not according to Church of Wells doctrine. She is not saved and will go to hell. Because she hasn’t done any of the things Sean Morris says we must. In fact, this is an illustration of exactly the “false Christianity” and absence of salvation that the Texas Boys rail about. Her parents aren’t saved either and are false Christians, according to Sean Morris’s reckoning and road map.
What this really is, is a perfect example of these young men’s immaturity and selfishness. Their teenagery insensitivity and general absence of compassion or common sense. The willingness to throw anyone under the bus and use anything to score points in contentious disagreement. This very clearly demonstrates their poor socialization and inappropriate boundaries.
Self-absorbed, over-protected young Americans without enough real challenges and need for true commitment in their lives refashion religion to be more dangerous and more risky and more personally satisfying.
→ If it’s true that this little girl has cancer, why would anyone want to add to this family’s burden? Why would you want to stress them out by posting their sick child’s video in a public comment section of an article about a controversial Texas group?
^^ Standing ovation.
Well said Q! I will also add that according to the COW doctrine, we don’t know if she’s saved until she has passed the ” endure to the end” test. (Which also shows their “works” based salvation……
Dear Guest, A person is saved by the regenerating work of God’s Holy Spirit accompanied by repentance and faith in the finished work of atonement of a person’s sins by the Lord Jesus Christ. Christ not only died, but rose again on the 3rd day, and entered the heavenlies and is seated at the right hand of the Father, interceding for His children. When a person is saved through the regnerating work of God’s Holy Spirit, he is a saved person! Presila is a saved person regenerated by God’s Holy Spirit, and there is evidence of the Holy Spirit’s work in her life. Christ calls the saved person to abide in faith, work out his/her salvation with fear and trembling, making his/her calling and election sure, to stand fast, and persevere until the end to inherit eternal life. Everything that we need to abide, workout, stand fast, etc. is found in the power of God’s Holy Spirit by His equiping, but a person must abide in faith…this is not a work of the flesh, but a simple surrender to God’s Holy Spirit. We trust that Presila will endure in faith till the end. There is nothing in her spiritual walk that causes us to doubt that….He who began a good work will carry it to completion. I am praying for her much during this trial period. We have the same resurrection power that raised Christ from the death available to lead a victorious life in Christ. Love in Christ, Moses.
Dear Q, You are using Baby Faith to unrighteously condemn the people of God. In contrast, I am using Presila’s song to inspire people into faith. We, including Preethi believe that Presila is saved by the blood of Christ, and has God’s Holy Spirit living in her. She is BOLD for Christ, and she has peace, contentment, and joy in Christ, rather than in the things of this world. The Spirit of God is mightily active in Presila’s life. Who is using a child in a dishonoring way in this comparison? Love in Christ, Moses.
I don’t think Moses that this girl’s faith is even being questioned by any of us on this blog. The point being made was that according to the COW standards she would not be truly saved yet.
AND according to Sean Morris et. al., this little girl should separate from and rebuke her parents because having a relationship with them is idolatry. At exactly what age should children reject their parents for the greedy, “unsaved”, idol-worshipors that they are, Moses David?? Or maybe Sean Morris would like to answer this question himself??
As always, Q, well stated!
Moses-
There are many people with bad breath that just don’t know it. You can smell when someone has bad breath when they are speaking to you and it seeps out when they breath.
Every word that comes from your mouth is filled with the stench of demons and the demonic stench trails behind you.
You are the spirit of Cain. Your names are Deception and Pride. You have robbed the Lord Jesus, the Messiah, of what belongs to him alone. It is the Lord Jesus, the Messiah, that came in human flesh to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, and to bring in everlasting righteousness. You will bow in submission to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Moses-
You are indeed correct that it is a spiritual battle. Because you are a Christian, you have permission to join the spiritual battle. However, you have no authority over the demons that influence other people because you must first take authority over the demons you have willingly submitted yourself to.
James 4:7 – Submit to God and Resist the devil and he will flee from you. You only submit selected sins to God. You only confess selected sins to God. The sins you choose to ignore are the ones that carry the stench that can be smelled by others around you. Your nose has gotten used to the stench and you can no longer smell it. Your stench reeks of Satan.
Only you can cast out these demons from you. It is only you because God has delegated this authority to you and you must be a willing participant. The Lord’s authority structure has given you authority your own life. Because you have given the demons permission to influence you, it will require you to take this step to cast them out.
The Spirit of God living inside of you does not mean that you are expected to be successful at avoiding all sin. It means that God has delegated to you the authority and power to cast out the demons that are influencing you to commit sin.
The Spirit of God living inside you you does not mean that you have authority and power to be a Righteous Judge of people. It means that God has delegated to you the authority and power to be a Righteous Judge of demons. You have permission to judge whether a demonic spirit is influencing you and you have the authority and power to cast it away from you.
The demons don’t want you to know that God’s intention is for you to cast demons out of your sin filled life. The demons want to fool you into believing that it is your job to correct other peoples sins.
Moses, You should know this. Do you remember learning this?
Keith, I think you hit it right on. It can only be a spiritual battle with Moses and the David family. Goes to show Satan attacks even the strongest and deceives them so much that they believe the lies and deception. Prayer is so needed for this family and for the COW.
Dear Keith, Why are so angry and hateful when I have simply stated what the true condition of your church is? Does it not bother you that most children that are raised up there do not have a relationship with Jesus Christ any more than the sticker on a car has value in providing energy for the car to move? I have been to church wide prayer meetings where there were fewer than 20 people out of over 500 people, with most elders not being present, whereas the church used to be packed full when there were jazz concerts, dramas or banquets. No elder spoke to me about God for more than 15 minutes personally in over 23 years. In fact, I do not remember any of the elders ask me for a testimony of my salvation. Out of hundreds of children raised within the church during our time, only a handful of them can be seen to follow Christ and His ways. Short gospel presentations followed magic shows, dramas, musical events, wild game feeds, etc. during which people were asked to sign cards, pray a prayer, raise hands, etc. and those responding were given assurance of their salvation. Basically, you are making salvation as a work of the flesh by counting these physical things (signing cards, raising hand, praying a prayer, confessing with one’s mouth without believing within the heart) including mental ascent of the truths of salvation. Youth group meetings were basically entertainment events in which God was included as a palatable item. Instead of getting upset and angry, you can do something constructive, by moving the church away from a social club with many gimmicks to entertain and keep people happy, and getting back to the basics of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ: reliance upon the Word of God, concerted prayer and genuine fellowship between the truly regenerated Christians. Know and understand what it means to be a true Christian, what it means to be a born-again Christian who has been regenerated by God’s Holy Spirit. There are several truly regenerated and born-again believers there who need to step up and run church like how the Bible teaches that it should be run. God bless you to have humility to see the murders of souls that are happening there by your religious leaders. I have hope that things can turn around, but it takes much repentance and an earnest desire to come under the hand of Almighty God, and His ways. God says, “I live in a high and a holy place, but also with the one who is broken and contrite in spirit.” May God grant this spirit to His people in your church. Love in Christ, Moses.
A cleverly crafted sentence that shifts the weight of decisions by the group leaders (Sean and Ryan), over to make it the action of families. Which effectively redefines families’ actions and intent. It puts the burden completely on the families for “cutting them off” while it is the group that made that decision. It’s the group that cut them off.
Compare the two perspectives, accurately and without emotion, as much as possible:
Families
“Families cut them off.” = false
“Families were hostile to the church.” = false
“By their hostility, families cut them off.” = false
“The church views families as hostile.” = true
The group
“Families cut them off.” = true
“Families were hostile to the church.” = true
“By their hostility, families cut them off.” = true
“The church views families as hostile.” = true
They share nothing in common except for one thing: the group views families as hostile.
The truth
The group wants something. Particular specific behaviour from parents and families. But they can’t/don’t articulate what the expectation is.
We’ve come to understand that at a minimum, the leaders want the members to preach to parents. So parents must let their adult child do this. More than that, the leaders want parents to submit to a faith assessment.
There’s a reason – because the group cannot be “unevenly yoked.” They can’t “fellowship” with non-believers (as one of the ways they define it). So family has to be screened and cleared for fraternization.
The family wants a relationship. The group doesn’t. The group wants to separate, own the person, and for everyone else to go away. One party wants something the other isn’t interested in giving. So one party has more to lose than the other. This is called “holding hostage” – classic controlling behaviour. More commonly known as bullying. There is no negotiation.
So first, nobody knew what the game is. Now, everybody knows, but it’s at an impasse. Family and friends finally understand what the leaders want and expect, but nobody knows what to do.
Go back up and read that first sentence again. These guys are artful verbal manipulators. They turned their decision to cut off families, into families cutting them off. This isn’t by accident; this is practiced and skillful.
I am going to begin a prayer today for the Church of Wells. Anyone who would like to continue the prayer and add to it feel free:
Dear Heavenly Father,
We thank you for your sovereignty and grace and today I pray specifically for the Church of Wells leaders and members. Please remove the blinders from their eyes and remove Satans grip from their lives. We know they are precious people who have been deceived beyond reach of any of your children. Lord, I pray for the safety of all those members who may be there against their will or that have been drawn in by scare tactics and condemning behavior by the leaders. Please cause doubt in their minds today and cause your Spirit to work in them to question the teachings they are being taught. Cause them to seek help from someone in the community or law enforcement. Cause them to pray to you for help in deciphering the truth. Cause them to contact their families and mend relationships. I pray for the leaders of this group that they would see their faults and confess them to you. Show them that relationships were created by you and that they are destroying families by cutting them off from their church members. Your Word is truth Lord, please use your Word to teach them humility, gentleness, and love so that they can share your word in a non-threatening way. Show them their errors in using scare tactics and condemning behavior.
I pray that even today something will happen to shake Satan loose from this church. Something that will expose these leaders as being false teachers. We trust that you will expae tg and their tactics. Lastly I pray for the protection of the community people who live in Wells. Protect their ears fr hearing the false Gospel of COW. May they not judge what a true Christian is like by watching the actions of their so-called community Church of Wells……
Amen
Sorry for the few spelling errors.
I also pray for the young children and babies within this group. Protect them from neglect and false teachings as well. Give them the care they need even when the leaders may see care differently. May they grow up to see the truth of Your Word and may they forget and reject the falseness taught to them…….
Thank you guest for lifting these beloved individuals up to the Lord who all have families who love each one of them very much. We are hurting families because we have lost contact with our son our daughter our grandson our grandaughter or friend into this dark shadow of secrecy. We pray with you all of the above and for the light to shine brightly to bring love and hope and true peace of God’s grace. May the leaders be held accountable for their wrongdoings and sins against so many people. thank you for starting this prayer thread. I am praying with you …. “Prayingtoo”
Dear Prayingtoo and All, Your son, or daughter, or grandson, or grandaughter, or friend from the Church of Wells would love to share with you about his/her Lord Jesus Christ, and share with you what it means to be truly saved. Please do not reject him/her simply because you are condemned by Christ and His Word. Today is the day of salvation, please contact your dear one and begin a relationship in the Lord Jesus Christ, rather than in carnal things of this world which will perish. Love in Christ, Moses.
Today is the day of salvation, please contact your dear one and begin a relationship in the Lord Jesus Christ
I am not sure about you, but when I began a relationship with Christ, I contacted Him directly. Since when did CoW become his gatekeepers?
Dear Tarka, No, they don’t have to be your gatekeepers to God, only Christ can be! But the thing is, many are deceived into a false gospel which does not save. Many have the false assurance of salvation while practicing a lifestyle of sin, or adultery with the world. Nobody who is truly seeking the Lord need to go through the Church of Wells. But it would be of value to hear them to know if your view of salvation agrees with the Bible. That is all I am saying. Love in Christ, Moses
But see, that IS what you’re saying Moses. You’re implying that the way Christ has worked in my life, my church family, my personal testimony – basically everything about my Christian walk – is invalid until CoW gets to look at it.
I am 100% certain of the status of my walk; therefore there is no value in CoW’s opinion.
Let me put it to you in different terms. If I am sick, and go to a real doctor. This doctor is certified by the highest medical authorities. He says I am cured because I have followed his orders. Additionally, I know I am cured because I can now life my life how a “cured” person can. So, there is no need for me to doubt my healing because of how I am now able to live my life.
All of that being said, why is there value in getting a second opinion?
You seem to quickly negate the Gospel we all believe simply because it’s not CoW’s gospel. You’re assuming all are guilty until being proven innocent. How dare you! You don’t know me, my church, my walk, my elders, or my life.
Focus on the log of pride in your own eye before trying to point out the specks in others.
Wow I have spelling errors.. but one slight edit:
***You ASSUME it’s not CoW’s Gospel.***
For all I know, there is no such thing as CoW’s Gospel or so-and-so’s Gospel. It’s CHRIST’S Gospel, and it’s printed on the pages of scripture.
That, sir, is the only opinion I need about my salvation.
The COW people are just modern day Pharisees. Self-righteous and works oriented leaders trying to condemn and judge everyone! Can’t believe how they act just like them. And can’t believe how they can’t see it!
Dear Tarka, Regarding your salvation, from your perspective, you do not need the Church of Wells members to authenticate your salvation, but you need to be careful that you are not deceived like the foolish virgins. As long as you follow the teachings of Christ and His Word, and you have been regenerated by God’s Holy Spirit through an authentic born again experience which is the work of God, and you are presently walking with God in progressive salvation, then you do not need anybody to authenticate your salvation. From the Church of Wells perspective however, they need to know your spiritual condition in order for them to interact with you in an appropriate way, and in order to protect their church family. Love in Christ, Moses.
Dear Tarka, Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, noone can come to the Father except through Him. Christ is the Gatekeeper, Christ is the Gate, Christ is the Keeper. You need to be saved by Him from the inside out, and you need to abide in Him by faith in order to be saved. Love in Christ, Moses.
I’m condemned and I’ve rejected Christ ??? No I have not rejected Christ. I am a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ as my sole salvation unto God that through His death that my sins are forgiven. and how do I contact my loved one ??? I would if I knew how to directly get in contact with them. they are lost and gone into the dark quagmire … I am praying for them to contact us since I am sure they know where we are. our home number and address has not changed since they left home it is still the same. But maybe their mind is so confused now they no longer even remember their home phone number … I am praying everyday. it is a very serious matter to lose all contact with a loved member of your family not to be taken lightly by anyone … When and if this happens I believe something is seriously wrong.
I have never rejected my loved one ever. I never would and never will reject my loved one till my dying day. My prayer is everyday they will contact us. Like I wrote below we have not moved and we still have the same home number. we are all waiting … And praying
Moses : it is very EVIL and WICKED OF YOU to imply that I have rejected my loved one. The only one I know of that would imply such a thing is the Devil himself. I am praying for you Moses. Keith is CORRECT I believe you have been taken over by Demons because only the Devil would imply such a wretched wicked evil thought about my feelings and thoughts towards my beloved family member that I have lost all contact with.
Dear pr
ayingtoo, Many parents have not rejected their child/ren. I do not know you specifically to say that you have rejected your child. Perhaps, if you come out of your secretive identity, I can speak to your child to know from the child’s perspective whether he/she thinks that you have rejected your child or not. In the case of some parents who seem to think that they have not rejected their child/ren, I think that from the child/ren’s perspective, they have rejected her/im because they have rejected their new found identity with Christ and His people at the Church of Wells. By rejecting their church family and the Word of Christ that the church members would like to share with their parents , the parents are rejecting the chidlren. Love in Christ, Moses.
My loved one is a grown adult and I am a grown adult. I don’t need for you Moses to intercede for me to my loved one. I don’t know you Moses you are a complete stranger to me and my family. I would not interfere in your personal family matters with your son and daughter so why do you think you should speak to my loved one on my behalf or their behalf. That is a very strange idea. my loved one knows their home phone number its been the same number since they were a very small child. I am being forced to wait for them to call me since I do not know or have a phone number for them. I am continuing to pray that they would remember the proverbs to honor their father and mother. I love my loved one very much and I never would and never have rejected my loved one and I am praying for them everyday. I still believe it is a very wicked and evil thought you expressed implying that I have rejected my loved one. You have sinned against me. Sincerely Prayingtoo
I do have a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. My loved one does not respond to my contact outreaches to them. sincerely prayingtoo
Prayingtoo,
I will be praying for your child as well as many others on this blog. My heart breaks for you all and for your children! The COW has terribly sinned against you and God in cutting communication between families in the name of Jesus and the need to protect. This shows their weakness in their faith. Stay strong and know that many are praying.
Dear Father in heaven, we lift up these children of yours who have been deceived. Please work in their hearts this day and in the days forward. Please send one of your servants to them and open the leaders’ hearts to correction. If there are any seeds of doubt in any of the members, help them to grow into complete doubt. Give them courage and feet to flee not looking back. Let them know You are speaking to them and they should not listen to all who would try to stop them. Give the the same passion to leave that the deceiver gave them to go there. We know you are sovereign over all. We trust you and your will. In Jesus Holy name we pray. Amen
Please put doubt in theirs minds today Lord so they see the deception and help them to run from it. Help them to be bold to question Sean, Jake, and Ryan’s authority and to seek Your truth and think for themselves. Help them to allow the Spirit to do Its job in their lives, to convict them of sin. And I also pray for us and all believers who do not share the COWs methods and teachings. Hold back out human nature to want to use harsh words but help us correct them with Your love. Help us and show us ways in which we can defend against false teachings and teach us how to pray effectively to battle against these false teachings.
In your name.
Dear Guest, May the Lord grant you the gift of praying in the Spirit according to the will of God rather than in the will of man. Love in Christ, Moses.
I am really glad we have Moses here to tell us if our prayers were heard or not.
It’s kind of like the joy one gets when a fax confirmation comes through. Oh the convenience! Should we be sending our prayers sing-on-deliver just to be safe?
Yes, that was sarcasm. If, in your mind, that sends me to hell, great. I’d encourage you to check the gospels though and see how often Jesus uses sarcasm to rebuke the Pharisees.
😉
Tarka, this response was AWESOME! Thanks.
Since I know that I am a born again believer and saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, I am indwelt by the Holy Spirit and living for Him. Therefore the Spirit intercedes for me in my prayers. Since I know that it is always Gods will, to pray for others to be protected from any false teaching and to keep people from being deceived by Satan, to keep people safe from harm, then I can be assured that I am praying in the Spirit. I have read the doctrine and manifesto of the COW as have other Godly pastors and believers, and there are many flaws in their doctrine and too many red flags to show that they have a cult- like doctrine and way of life. We are instructed in the Bible to be discerning and to beware of any false teaching. You do not know my heart nor anyone else’s in this blog so don’t tell us that we are in need of salvation. Many of us are already saved and living for Christ and not this world. Just because we do not live in a commune, or pray all day and night instead of work jobs, (by the way you can pray while you work) or not speak to our families, or not condemn people to hell without even knowing them, or celebrate birthdays and holidays, like those in the COW, does not make us unsaved or worldy. The COW does not need to approve of our salvation to authenticate it. Why can’t you see this Moses? It didn’t take long for you to be drawn up in this doctrine. Can you honestly say that you believe in all that the COW is doing and teaching? If so, why haven’t you moved to Wells? Why haven’t you quit your well- paying job since you don’t need anything of the world anymore? Why aren’t you street preaching in your community? Why are you even taking part in social media such as this blog or facebook? Isn’t this worldly? Are the members of COW allowed to have computers and be on social media sites like you and their leaders or is that only something that their controlling leaders can have and do? If you honestly believe all this, I pray for you! Please do not grieve the Spirit of God any longer.
And where in the Bible does it tell us to seek someone else to authenticate our salvation?
“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved”
I’m still waiting for Moses to answer all my question above…….
Although I didn’t really think he could answer them anyway.
Dear Guest, No, you do not need someone else to authenticate your salvation! Sadly, many have been authenticated by the false assurance given by their youth group leaders, pastors, evangelists, etc. Have you seen the times when they ask you to pray a prayer, and they tell you that you are saved now because you prayed the prayer? If a person is abiding in the teachings of Christ in His Word, and submissive to God’s Holy Spirit, God Himself will confirm one’s salvation. Sadly, many are deceived by their mental ascent, or the false confirmation by their spiritual mentors. Love in Christ, Moses.
Dear Guest, Even though a person’s salvation need not be authenticated by the Church of Wells, it is the responsibility of the leaders of this church to assess and know the spiritual condition of the people that want to interact with their church members, to protect their church members from ferocious wolves in sheep’s clothing. They need to know who are the sheep and who are the wolves…it is their God given, and God ordained responsibility to protect the flock whom God has entrusted them with. Secondly, they want to know the true condition of the outsiders that they interact with, so that they can be of benefit to them…if they are not saved, they can counsel them with the appropriate Word of God. If they are backslidden from their Christian faith, they need to appropriately bring the Word of counsel to them. They take a person’s salvation very seriously because it is a life and death matter, both to the outsiders that they interact with, and to their own church members whom they need to protect. I hope this clarification helps you to understand that they are not some spiritual authorities over you if you already have them, but sadly most spiritual authorities today have either not been truly regenerated by God’s Holy Spirit, or not taking the Word of God seriously, or deceived by the popular opinion in the Christian circles, or outright backslidden. So you need to watch carefully who your spiritual authorities are. Have they heard the testimony of your salvation clearly, and have they assessed it in light of God’s Word, and do they live their lives by the power of Godl’s Holy Spirit? Love in Christ, Moses.
This is exactly WHY Rick Trudeau is in jail with a bail bond in the many thousands of dollars because he is obviously considered by the authorities a THREAT A DANGER A WOLF … Not only to adults but to a CHILD
I Believe the authorities are taking every precaution to ensure Mr. Trudeau is not able to harm anyone.
Yes I fully understand my salvation according to what the Bible says and know that God alone is the one that should authenticate it and no one else including COW needs to assess it. And yes I have been a member of several solid Bible churches over many years where the leaders were/are Godly people and live by the Pierre of the HS, and serve the Lord and the church daily ….It is the church’s responsibility to warn, teach, encourage, and protect but not to control where you live, where your money is held, what family members you can talk to, who you marry, and who you can talk and associate with. This is where COW fails BIG! And who determines when a person comes to COW if they are saved or not and if they are in a backslidden state? Let me guess…..One of the elders of COW?! Wrong, they do not have that authority nor should they be telling people who say that they are saved by the blood of Christ, that they are not! Only God knows the heart. They can teach and encourage but not assume, judge, or condemn. And yes j know we are to watch carefully that churches are not behaving and teaching falsely. This is exactly why we are all warning people of the COW! There are way too many things that are wrong here…. But of course you have been deceived and do not and will not open your eyes and mind to the Spirit and see….. You have been warned by many!
Dear Guest, I do not know how you get the idea that the church members do not work. I do not know of any of the church members who does not work. Most people work much harder than people doing secular jobs, and yes, they pray a lot while doing their jobs. They strive to submit to God’s Holy Spirit and work under Holy Spirit guidance rather than in the flesh. I was really blessed to visit the new sawmill where the brothers work very hard, even in the heat of the day, and they take breaks for prayer, singing hymns, lunch, etc. From what I have seen, they are very efficient and hard working, so they end up having very productive days. My daughter was saying just a couple of days ago, that when she went to another elder’s house to help the sister there, Sean and the other bachelors living in her house cleaned up all the bathrooms, and the house by the time she got home, and she was blessed by that! I was blessed to see the even the young children lovingly do the many tasks in the house such as gathering the eggs from the chicken, feeding the goats, etc. One child told me last time that she was longing to be trained to milk the goats. They are a group of hard working families with a strong work ethic. I was inspired by the brothers to work like them, abiding in the Holy Spirit throughout my day while doing my secular job. Love in Christ, Moses.
Hardworking at hime does not put food in the table…. Learning household chores is wonderful for kids because it builds good work ethics so yes it’s good to teach kids at an early age. However learning good work habits is supposed to train you for your real “grown-up” job which puts food on the table, pays your utilities, travel expenses, clothing, family, etc. In doing so you shouldn’t need to rely on the government for these things…… It shouldn’t even be a thought for a Christian to use government assistance for these specific needs unless you are disabled. COW has chosen to live this way therefore they need to be responsible Christians, expand their workforce, and not take advantage of the government, otherwise it comes across as lazy.
“My daughter was saying just a couple of days ago, that when she went to another elder’s house to help the sister there, Sean and the other bachelors living in her house cleaned up all the bathrooms, and the house by the time she got home, and she was blessed by that.”
Would one not expect that if a bunch of “bachelors” were living in one’s house that the very least that they could do would be to clean up after themselves??? Not only does your daughter idolize these boys, Moses David, but you, a supposedly grown man, does too!!!
Moses, there you go again JUDGING the Prayers of others…Let me guess -ONLY you and the CoW Pray correctly!
Just so we’re clear – Faith Pursley is a baby that died from being unable to nurse, when her parents failed to seek medical help for her.
In contrast, there’s a sick child in Iowa receiving medical treatment at Mayo Clinic.
Is this a Church of Wells child? No. Do they share the same church, beliefs, pastors? No. Are the parents being counseled to avoid medical help? Apparently not, since she’s under a doctor’s care. Are the parents taking direction from Sean Morris and Ryan Ringnald or Moses David? It doesn’t sound like it; this child lives in a different state and belongs to a church congregation that has no relationship to any of these men. What’s the relationship then? There isn’t one. Why is this child being used as an inspiration by the group ‘Church of Wells’ and compared to the death of the baby, Faith Pursley? I don’t know. Why is Moses David taking credit for this child? I don’t know.
Does this suggest that Moses actually believes Faith Pursley should have been taken to a doctor? I hope so!
By the way, the family took the little girl’s video down. Good job, Moses, Sean and Ryan.
I didn’t put that question out, nor is it in my thoughts. You did. But it begs an answer. You are, Moses.
You are quarrelsome. You don’t talk; you argue and bicker.
That is a very good question Q!
Very strange indeed!
Dear Q, I hope that those who heard Presila were blessed by God’s Spirit working in her. She truly is saved, and I hope that God would bless the readers of this blog with faith like that child. I also hope that you all see the sovereignty of God in all matters pertaining to life and death, that you will not put your hope more in the medical system than in Almighty God Himself. God is able to heal dear Presila with or without using the best medical resources, but His sovereign decree stands. I pray that the readers of his blog will be prepared to face physical death, after which the soul will live forever, either separated from God, or united with Him, forever. Where we look determines our eternal destiny…may we all look to the Lord Jesus Christ, the Author and Perfector of faith, granted freely to those who would receive it, and hold on to it, until the day of redemption. Love in Christ, Moses.
These blog links have been sent to the Cherokee County DA’s office – also to the City of Wells and Alto. All of you have done a remarkable job in the comments, adding / supplementing one to another, respecting one another, yet the righteous anger coming through has definitely been shown. The true hurt and emotional pain of the parents and family has been very real! I am so thankful that God has moved Mr. Hankins to open up these wounds so hearts could be spilled out. There is hope that comes with opportunity to shed light on this dark entity called a church and to expose the deception of these deluded young leaders.
Just wondering,
Thanks for the information and let us know how else we can help with the stopping of COW and the spreading of information so others are warned.
Info was posted on Stephen F Austin University in Nacogdoches – FaceBook page – it can be repeated and added to – there is Angelina College – think of other places. Waters Edge Encampment – a Christian Camp outside of Alto will have nothing to do with CoW. **
Here is DA Rachel Patton’s email – DACrimevict@cocherokee.org (this is the correct email) send emails with questions
Is the DA going Ty o help? The DA would not speak to Lamar who wrote the article…also, the DA did not prosecute any CoW member for the Death of Baby Faith??? How will the DAY help?
Stacy, I do not know if the DA would do anything. They have not answered my email. I had to call to get a correct address because the one on the internet was wrong. They would not answer any questions via phone because I was not a family member.
I have no law experience. Although I do believe a squeeky wheel will get oiled.
They wouldn’t answer Mr. Hankins either so don’t feel bad and he does have law experience.
Yes, the squeaky wheel….keep squeaking everyone!! Demand Justice!
Dear All, I do not know if any of the church members use the governmental benefits. They have the same privileges as the readers of this blog to avail of all the governmental benefits, just as the readers of this blog use the government’s money to educate their school-aged children, take personal exemptions on their tax forms to reduce their taxes, or use public parks for recreation. They have to pay the taxes just like any other person in this nation. Also, this is not a communist country that requires all of its educated people to have a job. Love in Christ, Moses.
Honestly Moses…this group uses government assistance and you know it!! You know EVERYTHING about them – you know this to be true as well. I find it very interesting that with any comment or question you find a way to “skate” around it and try to take all “eyes” off the CoW members by making your off the wall statements. Plus you are ALWAYS trying to push the blame on others. Moses – HONESTY is something none of you practice.
You can tell when he doesn’t know how to answer a question. First he said he doesn’t think they government assistance in an excessive way or they don’t use as much as most Americans and now he changed it to, “I do not know if any of the church members use the governmental benefits”.
Stories keep changing.
Let’s clarify this for you Moses so you can stop giving answers that do not apply. I, am likely others are referring to receiving welfare benefits under Title XIX, Texas Medicaid, TANF Benefits (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) and SNAP Benefits, formerly the Food Stamp Program. In Texas SNAP benefits are accessed through an EBT system with the Lonestar Card.
We are NOT referring to using a park, taking personal deductions on tax forms, or taking our children to public school. So stop dodging the question, giving answers that do not apply, and trying to steer the conversation away from the original question.
Dear Lorayne, I am not talking about all the “X,Y,Z” you are talking about, I do not know if any of the church members use these, but I am talking about public school education, parks, personal exemptions, etc. that the readers of this blog avail of just like any that the church members might be availing of (I do not know if any are however) according to the law of the nation. LIC, Moses.
That was my point. Our comments were specific to Medicaid and Food Stamps and you have replied to those posts not by saying that you don’t know if they use them but instead brought into the conversation unrelated topics about parks, school and filing of tax exemptions. I understand if you don’t know if a member is on government welfare and that is fine. But don’t reply to the topic and say they use government benefits and then later say you were speaking of parks, school, tax breaks etc. It confuses the discussion for no reason. Those of us who posted about it were clear we were referring to welfare benefits.
Thank you for your reply and clarification.
Oh Moses, there you go again back-peddling like the silly man that you are. We all know that the IRS and other governmental agencies do NOT view the use of a public park, a public school, or even a legit deduction on your taxes to be the same things as taking advantage of food stamps or medicaid. EVERYONE is automatically allowed the privilege of utilizing and taking advantage of public parks, public schools, public libraries, etc. People must QUALIFY to utilize public assistance programs last we checked. Cute way to try to justify the cow members feelings of ENTITLEMENT to assistance programs which are meant to be TEMPORARY and NOT A WAY OF LIFE!!! Maybe the audit that is coming their way will clear up any confusion…
^^ Right. We know. We know the truth. We just have to keep chipping away at the old block. Sad he can not see not even his dear son in law will get on here and stand behind him during this so unjust “persecution”. He is alone. Alone to defend COW. The sole voice for their righteous judgment.
…do not reject him/her…
Nope, they aren’t. One more time – families/moms and dads/grandparents/sisters and brothers/cousins/friends are not, and probably will not, reject them.
If they did, you’d know. It would be different for each individual and their respective relations. It wouldn’t be all the same. Varied and unique backgrounds, cultures, personalities.
How do Sean, Ryan, Jake and Moses define “rejection?” What does it look like to them?
…simply because…
No, never “simply because.” That would be shallow and facetious. These are serious things.
…you are condemned by Christ…
Who is? Everyone? Anyone outside of Church of Wells or their small circle of young male cohorts? How do they know? Sean, Jake, Ryan, Preethi and Moses David aren’t God’s personal assistants or business management. They do not speak for God.
But they really seem to believe they do. Why would any ordinary person decide they speak for God and Christ? Especially to say Christ condemns specific individuals. That’s an awful lot of authority.
Perhaps it’s true. But there are simpler more direct answers. Mental illness. An elaborate scheme. Young men who started off right but got carried away. Who knows?
Only the three ‘elders’ of this Texas group know what salvation is and what the bible says about it.
Why don’t all the hundreds of Christian men, career pastors and spiritual leaders they’ve met, know this and say the same thing about them?
Dear Q, “Together, they have all become unprofitable.”
LIC,
Moses
More arrogance and self-righteousness!…..that’s why questions will always be either ignored or dodged. Kinda reminds you of the Pharisees huh? Yep
Again, misquoted , here is the verses in context, you forgot a few…… Paul is referring to EVERYONE in the human race, including COW unless they want to argue more that they are GOD.
Romans 3:10-12
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Dear Guest, It is a major grievance when those who are supposed to know the truth do not see it, lest they lose the favor of (elite) men. So, the religious leaders involved have become unprofitable, all of them who were in the thick of this controversy…..God will hold them accountable! LIC, Moses.
So the COW has become unprofitable ??? That’s great news Moses !!! if their human trafficking efforts have become unprofitable and they are living off government assistance now to survive maybe all of these confused people will go back to their families and homes where they are truly loved and won’t be abused and manipulated any longer for the profit of others. That is my prayers.
Well, with one in jail, and maybe more to come, they are
becoming unprofitable.
Thank you Lord!
Hahaha…Moses how funny that you mentioned the word Communist…it seems to me that the Church of Wells acts as though they are Communist. EVERYTHING about that group is “Controlled” by Sean Morris, Ryan Rignald & Jacob Gardner in a “Controlled” environment…COMMUNICATION, MARRIAGES, WORK, ENTERACTION with outside Society, PERSONAL PROPERTY, WOMEN NOT BEING ALLOWED TO WORK let alone SPEAK, ISOLATION FROM FRIENDS & FAMILIES! Get up, Get out and Get JOBS!!! STOP MORPHING off the hard working SOCIETY that you CONDEMN…YOU ARENOT DISABLED NOR IN NEED!!!!!!
Sorry..MOOCHING OFF & INTERACTION
Last word is Rick Trudeau is in JAIL With a HUGE BAIL !!! That sounds CRIMINAL MOSES !!! ARE you still defending this criminal leader of the COW ? So LAW Enforcement DA’S and Judges “LOVE” the CoW and their Scare and Threat and Harrassment” Tactics ??? which I allege are similar to ISIS : Do as I say or else” … May Truth Light and Justice Prevail and be brought forth over the COW AND MOSES
CowinJail,
Is there a link to this new information?
I saw Rick Trudeau’s most recent mug shot from New York on the Faithboardhost just a few days ago. He was arrested last week in NY and a very large bail, I heard, $25,000 was posted. Maybe some more news with the details will be posted there. Waiting patiently and praying to God for more justice and more cowmen to be appropriately arrested …. and then CONVICTED
CowinJail,
Is there a link to this information or anything else you know about it? Would love to hear
Dear CoWinJAIL, Paul was in jail too, doesn’t surprise me one bit….after a NY judge verdict that a father cannot read the Bible to his son….all happening in a supposedly Christian nation. Love in Christ, Moses.
Hmmm … Somehow you got a miscommunication …error … Don’t think Mr. Trudeau is in jail for trying to read the Bible to his child … Lying is a sin Moses … If the CoW is spreading slanderous rumors about the NY Judicial system that is willful sinning. But on that same subject of freedom so can I read the Bible with my loved one in the CoW ???? Or are there restrictions ??? this is the USA as you say … Maybe you are confused about what being an American truly is … You truly are in need of some honest self-reflection Moses.
Dear CoWinJAIL, If this is sincerely your desire, I am confident that the church members would delight in parents and their children united with Christ at the center of this union through God’s Word. Please press forward with this desire and things will move in the right direction for you and your family. But you can be assured that if want to do this as a pretense to see your child without really wanting Christ to be supreme in this interacton, they will find this out in a heartbeat, and will expose the sin to you.But I hope for better things in your case. Love in Christ, Moses.
Of course Moses, I would like to read the Bible with my loved one very much, and there is no pretense at all. I truly care for and love them. I think your statement is quite insulting and rude. I am a devout strong believer in our Lord Jesus Christ and seek to put Him first everyday in my life to bring glory and honor to His Name. Why would I not want Christ to be first in this persons life that I love very much. Luke 11:11 “Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he ? Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him.” You “claim” that parents reject their children. I say you are lying. I have not rejected anything about reading the Bible or God’s Word with the person I am wanting to read the Bible with. Do you have another suggestion How I might press forward as you suggest. They have been out of touch for awhile. Don’t answer text messages or phone calls. It seems to me that the CoW is not bringing news of Good Tidings as you claim ….
Romans 10:15
Yours Truly CoWinJAIL
Moses,
Please check all of your facts. There is more to this case than just that. A father would not be jailed with a huge bail for wanting to read the Bible to his son unless he post a threat to him. As you keep preaching, listen to the other side.
Dear Truth Seeker, God’s Word is perceived as a threat to the world. When God says, “the wages of sin is death,” this can be wickedly interpreted by someone as a death threat! Wake up and see what is happening in this nation….a judge ruling that a father cannot read the Bible to his son? I do not know the details about what happened with brother Rick’s case, but I sense that he might have been warning them of the impending judgment of God, and people are using this as a death threat craftily. Supposing I have a dream that someone I love is going to die, then I am more concerned for the person’s soul that I would warn the person that he/she might die, and plead with the person to repent and believe the gospel. Something like this can be used as a basis to claim that I threatened to kill the person. Love in Christ, Moses.
Your senses are way off on this one. The news of the truth will be out very soon about Rick T’s arrest…… Its not just about reading the Bible to his son, or trying to warn people, that doesn’t constitute an arrest, Moses. I wouldn’t be defending him when you don’t have the facts yet and I’m not even sure why you would want to.
Dear Guest, I wouldn’t be accusing him either before he is legally determined to be guilty. We know that there are people bent on rejecting the Word of Christ that he would like to bring to his son, and to put him out of his son’s life. Love in Christ, Moses.
*posed…autocorrect
Dearest Moses, on one hand you want to convince all of us estranged parents who have lost contact with our kids that’s it’s not the Cows leadership fault we no longer are in communication with our sons and daughters but instead due to us “rejecting” our loved ones which we are all saying to you over and over that we have not done. AND NOW you have just wrote and want us to buddy up with you and the COW to sympathize and “WAKEUP.” You wrote to “Truthseeker” seeking sympathy against our US judicial system for coming down harshly and dangerously down on poor Rick Trudeau, the COW and their tactics … Um WAKEUP MOSES !!! You refuse to acknowledge and admit and see that the COW is THE THREAT to our families our very beings … I for one am siding with the DA and the judge who have had Rick Trudeau arrested. I would gladly see the rest of the leaders put behind bars with him. They are all a disgrace to the name Christian. Don’t ask us to “wakeup” when our families have been attacked and harmed by the very men who have been arrested. We are AWAKE AND WE SEE THE WARNINGS THE DANGERS AND THE THREATS. YOU DEAR SIR ARE THE ONE WHO NEEDS TO WAKEUP !!!
http://therothshow.com/2014/01/one-church-of-wells-deacon-threatens-to-kill-if-he-doesnt-get-his-way-do-what-i-say-or-god-will-strike-you-dead-really/
EXCELLENT !!! thank you for posting
Honestly Moses…you and the Elders/men of the CoW are EXTREMISTS! Thank God for the Law Enforcement in the State of New York…Now you and yours are beginning to see what it is to be held ACCOUNTABLE!! It is only a matter of time before Cherokee County Law will be made to hold the rest of the CoW ACCOUNTABLE… Rick Trudeau along with the others Are BAD NEWS in whatever state/city or county they reside. It WILL CATCH UP TO YOU ALL!
Dear all, the more we go off on Moses, the more he will feel right with God! They want to be persecuted. They feel more holy that way. We are feeding into their delusion! (I am guilty as well) We should all pray for them as above and probably silently not publicly as they will take even that as persecution!
Truthseeker, I wholeheartedly agree. I say we disengage any dialogue with Moses and only post anything new regarding the case. Prayer is the right thing to do always and it will be more pleasing to our Lord that way. We do not want to contribute more to their “so-called” holiness. May God bless you all as you pray and continue your wall with Him.
Oops, walk.
Question : When someone is arrested are they not being “accused” of a crime ? Rick Trudeau was arrested again a second time so obviously someone somewhere in law enforcement is “accusing” him of some kind of crime and I am more than CONFIDENTLY POSITIVE its not for wanting to read his son the Bible … Waiting and praying patiently at the Throne of our Lord Jesus Christ ….
Dear Guesttoday, The law enforcement is not accusing him of some kind of crime, but complaint from some, perhaps of some threat, for which the police might have taken action. A person is guilty when the court of law hears both sides to declare a verdict. As a result of verdicts, people like Paul were imprisoned by people who hated God. Likewise, we live during a time when most people hate God. Many people hate God by loving the things that God hates, and hating the things that God loves. God wants fathers to teach the Bible to their sons, and brother Ricky is passionate about sharing Christ to his dear son. I pray that he will get the opportunity to lead his son into a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. Love in Christ, Moses.
I think you are wrong Moses. The police will NOT arrest someone just because someone makes a complaint. The law enforcement also has to believe that a law has been broken to arrest someone. In this case I believe it is Law Enforcement officials, a D.A. and a Judge. Yes there has to be a hearing and a trial but to be arrested there has to be enough evidence to bring reason to justify arresting someone and charging them with whatever law has been believed to be broken.
Moses, you DO NOT have a $25,000 Bond because someone has filed a complaint – or you are trying to read the Bible to your Child….
Dear Moses, why did you post today about Abigail and Nabal on your wall ??? What is the intention of your post that “the end justifies the means.” I know in the Doctrine of Judgment Sean Morris writes about Abigail and Nabal and he labels cutoff parents of the church of wells as Nabals as level 5 parents. Why did you post about Abigail and Nabal and I am most curious WHY Jean Morris Sean’s mother would “like” your post TODAY about Abigail and Nabal ???? Please explain. Are you all working together to not be level 5 parents ? Why are there any levels of parents ? Where is this in the Bible ? Why do you submit or obey to something that is not in the Bible ?
Dear Abigail, Thanks for asking this question. I have been reading through the Bible for the past several months, and am now in 1 Samuel. I was inspired by this blessed lady whose actions to reject her ungodly husband was not condemned by God. What she did for the man of God, King David was quite remarkable, she truly was a woman of faith, who took the initiative to prevent the unrighteous shedding of blood, she prevented David from this bloodshed, for which David said, “Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, which sent thee this day to meet me: and blessed be thy advice, and blessed be thou, which hast kept me this day from coming to shed blood, and from avenging myself with mine own hand. For in very deed, as the Lord God of Israel liveth, which hath kept me back from hurting thee, except thou hadst hasted and come to meet me, surely there had not been left unto Nabal by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.So David received of her hand that which she had brought him, and said unto her, Go up in peace to thine house; see, I have hearkened to thy voice, and have accepted thy person.”
We see in this incident how God values faith more than protocol….Abigail was a righteous woman of faith in spite of her seemingly wicked ways….God esteemed her greatly. Love in Christ, Moses.
You did not answer my question Moses. By your answer are you implying you do not know anything about the level 5 parents in the Doctrine of Judgment written by your son-in-law Sean Morris ? Are you implying you are ignorant that Sean Morris compares parents who disagree with the Church of Wells to dogs and swine and Nabals ??? Are you implying that you are unaware of the doctrine in “Familial Judgment” taught by Sean Morris about Abigail and Nabal and the Church of Wells and the level of Parents as described by Sean Morris in the Doctrine of Judgment ?
Abigail-
This is a good. Asking questions about his recent posts and asking how it ties back to the COW. (Have you read any of the Steven Hassan material explaining how to have conversations with members?)
Dear Guest, Truth Seeker, Stacey, CowInJail and Anonymous, It is not a new thing that the Church of Wells members were arrested for standing on the side of Truth. Several members were arrested for public preaching of the Gospel because their method was perceived as bringing condemnation to people who do not want to come into the light of Jesus Christ. I perceive that even some of you do not want to hear a Gospel (of separation from the world unto the Lord Jesus Christ who has purchased His children by His precious blood) that does not suit the popular view of a cross-less gospel, one which allows people to remain in sin, and in the world. The world and its desires will pass away, but the one who does the will of God will abide forever with their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. God did not send His Son to condemn the world, but the world to come to God THROUGH HIM. Through Him means through His Word which will abide forever even though men will fall like grass, and THROUGH HIS SPIRIT whom He gave as a deposit guaranteeing eternal life Through Him means paying heed to His voice through His Word. Through His Spirit means to surrender to His Spirit rather than to the flesh. Salvation in found in the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ, not in a decision, not in mental acknowledgment, not in the world, not in Calvinism (or Arminianism) or aligning oneself with the popular (fake) churches that have populated this great nation. God is going to use all these trials in the lives of people to prepare a bride unto Himself, one who is devoted to her Lord, Jesus Christ Himself. If they persecuted Christ, they WILL persecute the people of God. Persecution authenticates the ministry of the Church of Wells, even if so from one’s own family members. Christ is sufficient to sustain His people by His grace, orange clothes or none, HE WILL CLOTHE HIS CHILDREN WITH HIS RIGHTEOUS ROBE! Love in Christ, Moses.
Moses, once again I will say you all are EXTREMISTS! The Church of Wells members are being arrested per you because THEY stand on the side of TRUTH!! The statements and visits/searching by friends and families for their kids that have gone missing to this group can be seen as standing on the side of TRUTH!! Moses your Truth and the Church of Wells Truth is not the same as the outside world. There is NO WAY ANYONE even has a chance of reasoning with you or getting through. You will always be the “HOLY, SAVED, RIGHTEOUS bunch” and everyone else will be “Sinners, Heathens, and Deceived individuals”. What you all are really wanting is for everyone to conform to your ways – you have even judged the Prayers of others on this page…God is so HAPPY to have people Pray. We are all individuals and God KNOWS our hearts Good & EVIL! God DOES NOT judge our Prayers Moses and neither should you! It is only a matter of time and this will come crashing down. To all the Parents/Families and Friends to members of the CoW…DO NOT give up, Keep Praying your Beautiful Prayers (God does hear them) and know that the TRUTH & LIGHT will overcome the EVIL.
They weren’t arrested for public preaching… they were arrested for trespassing and preaching on private grounds. You know, like sneaking into high schools and youth conferences. Talk about being wolves in sheep’s clothing…
Get your facts straight.
Let’s clarify about the word “Gospel”. This word sometimes gets mis-understood. The word Gospel means “Good News”. Nothing more than the idea of bringing a message of Good News. It generally needs a qualifier to identify the message of Good News about _________ (fill in the blank). Paul frequently leaves the qualifier out, so it is necessary to remember what Good News that Paul was previously talking about. 1 Corinthians 15 has the clearest definition of the “Gospel” that Paul spent his life wanting people to know.
Moses’ definition of the Gospel (Good News). Salvation has a requirement of “Our behavior to separate from the world, because Jesus purchased us.”
Paul’s definition of the Gospel (Good News). Salvation has a requirement of “Our belief/trust/faith in what the LORD has done.”
Moses Quote:
“I perceive that even some of you do not want to hear a Gospel (of separation from the world unto the Lord Jesus Christ who has purchased His children by His precious blood)”
Paul’s Quote:
1 Corinthians 15:1-8
15 Let me now remind you, dear brothers and sisters,[a] of the Good News I preached to you before. You welcomed it then, and you still stand firm in it. 2 It is this Good News that saves you if you continue to believe the message I told you—unless, of course, you believed something that was never true in the first place.
3 I passed on to you what was most important and what had also been passed on to me. Christ died for our sins, just as the Scriptures said. 4 He was buried, and he was raised from the dead on the third day, just as the Scriptures said. 5 He was seen by Peter[c] and then by the Twelve. 6 After that, he was seen by more than 500 of his followers[d] at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died. 7 Then he was seen by James and later by all the apostles. 8 Last of all, as though I had been born at the wrong time, I also saw him.
Core of the Bible Gospel:
1- Christ (The Messiah, the LORD, the Creator of the Heavens) took the penalty of death for your sins so you don’t have to. This is a gift that you don’t deserve.
2- Christ (The Messiah, the LORD, the Creator of the Heavens) was raised from the dead so you can be raised from the dead also. This is a gift that you don’t deserve.
3- The evidence that this is true includes historical documents and hundreds of eye-witnesses documenting in person, face to face, and audible confirmations directly from the LORD.
If you believe Paul’s definition of the Gospel (Good News), then you are saved as a free gift from God, and it is time to learn more about this amazing God that would give you such an undeserved gift.
If you believe a different Gospel (Good News), then you are on still on a vain quest to earn your own salvation and you will be condemned for failing to measure up to your own standards plus failing to measure up to the standards of God.
Which Gospel are you going to believe?
Moses you are right, we don’t want to hear your false “Gospel of Works” because we believe in “The LORD’s Gospel of Grace”.
I do have a personal relationship with Jesus, and my loved one does not respond to outreaches to contact them. How is that demonstrating love and honor ? Your saying these guys are willing to go to jail to share the gospel but my loved one does not respond back to my efforts to contact them. Something is not adding up. I see a gap here. Sincerely prayingtoo
Dear Prayingtoo, I believe that there is an opportunity here, if you are truly willing to put God at the center of your life, and if you do not expect your child to be accepted back only in his/her old life of “dead habit,” or “vain tradition of forefathers,” If you willing to come under the subjection of Christ like that, you will truly be a blessing to your child, even as he/she will be a blessing to you and your family! God will truly be glorified in your midst. So I urge you to trust in God completely in this situation, and communicate with your child about your desire to put God first above everything else. If this is true about you, I encourage you to write a letter to your child about your desire to put God above everything else, and seek to meet your child. May God bless your family to be united in the peace of Jesus Christ, and may His Great Name be brought praise! Love in Christ, Moses.
Yes, I do desire and seek on a daily basis to put God first in my life. If I write a letter do you know where I send it ? What mailing address? I do not know where to mail a letter to since I don’t even know where they live. Sincerely Prayingtoo
oh BARF Moses – you absolutely make me sick with your words – I’m thankful I do not have to hear it!
Acts 16:30-31 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
#1 So they said leave your family and all you have and go to Wells Texas. Have the elders examine your hearts. Do what they say and you will be saved.
#2 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household
I pick option 2
Moses David: “it is the responsibility of the leaders of this church to assess and know the spiritual condition of the people that want to interact with their church members, to protect their church members from ferocious wolves in sheep’s clothing.”
WHO IS ASSESSING THE SPIRITUAL CONDITION OF THE LEADERS OF THE CHURCH OF WELLS???
Dear Baylor Alumni, They have some real accountability within the church. The one time when we visited, one of the elders was rebuked by the other two as a result of the complaint of one of the church members. The elder took the rebuke with grace, and was strongly convicted throughout the week, and he actually preached the main message on Sunday, and it was a really impactful sermon, convicting us of similar sins in our lives. In the case accountability outside the church, they have respect for some Godly remnant leaders outside the church. They are prepared to be rebuked and counseled by such people, and have sought to meet with them, but sadly, these remnant leaders have cut them off, and do not want to meet them. I pray that these remnant leaders will be more inclined to meet with them to hear them out, and to counsel them if they are straying from the truth. Sadly, these people have believed all the lies about them without seeking to hear directly from them. Love in Christ, Moses.
Moses you say, : “Sadly, these people have believed all the lies about them” They are NOT LIES. I and many others, as we have testified to you over and over, are eye-witnesses of these men’s sins on multiple numerous accounts. I will with no hesitation with complete honesty and confidence swear in a court of law that everything I have said about these men IS TRUE. They are coercive fraudulent abusive dangerous harmful to life and controlling. Moses, If you are giving them money love offerings financial support in anyway then of course they won’t treat you that way. You have Blinders on Moses like a lamb being led to the slaughter. I’m just waiting for a day in court.
Proverbs 19:6 “Many will entreat the favor of a generous man, and every man is a friend to him who gives gifts.” Are you giving them gifts Moses ? Have you given them gifts Moses like Abigail gave to David to makeup for “NABAL” ? Why are you buying into the Doctrine of Judgment ? It is all about “Dishonoring Your Parents.” Your post yesterday Moses the “End justifys the means.” Really ??? If this is the case Moses that you have become an Abigail to these men then you have been bought. Are you admitting you have given them money so you won’t be a “Nabal.” ?Down below you write your wife has quit wearing gold jewelry and you all have quit watching movies. So what … have you quit eating your Indian food that everyone knows takes so much time to cook ? Remember your judgmental post about cucumbers and idolatry and wasting precious time for the Lord on food even gardening … don’t be a hypocrite. The main error in all of this is how much pain you are bringing to so many peoples lives by continuing to support and endorse these men when they are LITERALLY and TRULY hurting and destroying families all over this country. Before you go judging the young man next to you at church for thinking about football why don’t you think about how many families you are hurting and get the Log out of your own eye ? IT IS WRONG. Our loved ones Grandparents are very sad at all loss of communication with their loved one. Are they going to die and pass on before they ever hear from their loved one again ?
How dis-honoring is that Moses ? It is Very Dishonoring Moses, and who is supporting this type of behavior and teaching and demanding it is the Lord’s Will ? You know the answer Moses. Please don’t answer back some disrespectful answer towards the Grandparents. “Better is a poor man who walks in his integrity than he who is perverse in speech and is a fool.” Proverbs 19:1
Our prayer to our loved one caught in this Proverbs 1 ambush : “Hear, my son, your father’s instruction, and do not forsake your mother’s teaching, Indeed they are a graceful wreath to your head.” Proverbs 1:8-9
This is the 2nd time you shared this story about 1 elder being rebuked by the other 2.
The shocking thing about this story. It sounds more like the 1st elder may have had a small twinge of compassion towards someone. But no… The other 2 elders needed to remind him that their version of Christ like love is supposed to be harsh, judgmental, accusatory, etc.
They have so much control that if anyone steps out of line, there will be consequences.
You are sharing a great example of how fear/manipulation techniques are used to control members.
You not sharing an example of correct Biblical righteous judgment.
Can you share some examples of the fear/manipulation techniques they used on you?
The latest is that Rick threatened the life of his ex-wife because she wouldn’t allow him access to his son. Even gave her the time and place. Makes you wonder why she has full custody to begin with…. I’m sure the truth will be out soon . Praying for justice for the COW.
Dear Truth Seeker, Praise God that option 2 is the correct option! Be warned that “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead”~ James 2:17-20. In the age of large scale deception within the church of today, it is the responsibility of the Church of Wells members to bring the pertinent Word of God to remembrance, so that men may assess their salvation in light of the Truth of the Word of God. May God bless you to be founded on the TRUE ROCK of the LORD JESUS CHRIST. Love in Christ, Moses.
I am glad you agree Moses. The only problem here is that the CoW does not. I could never do enough “works” to for them to say I am saved. My dress is not good enough, my service to my Lord is not good enough, where I live is not good enough, what I do with my spare time is not good enough, and it never will be until I give it all up to move to Wells. Therefore, they pick option #1
Dear Truth Seeker, They are not looking for “works,” but evidence of the work of God’s Holy Spirit in one’s life. When we humble ourselves before God and put away stumbling blocks, God begins to do His work in our lives. When God started working in the lives of my children, He started changing them. One day, they came to us after we watched a wicked movie and said that we should stop watching movies. God convicted us of our sin, and we do not watch these movies anymore. When God worked in my wife’s life, slowly God removed the interest she had to wear gold jewellery, and she does not wear them anymore, much to the dismay of some of our ungodly relatives. We have nothing against those who do wear jewellery, but things like this show where our heart is. Education used to be an idol in our lives, but God removed that idol from us. This morning during the sermon, the two teenagers who were sitting beside us were playing with the notebook that they had with them. The older sister took her brother’s book and wrote on it, “NFL” and the names of two teams, A Vs B, and her brother responded by striking what her sister wrote, and wrote two other teams: C Vs D. The truth is, NFL is an idol in their hearts, and this is more important to them than the sermon, and I suspect this is the case with many christians who might have attended church in this country this morning. In the sermon, the pastor was preaching from Acts 17:16 “Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.” As I saw the children discussing about NFL during the sermon, God’s Spirit likewise stirred in me that this great nation is likewise full of idols. It was a blessing as I borrowed the pen from the brother to underline some verses in my Bible during the sermon, the boy was convicted of what he was doing, and he started paying attention to the sermon, and taking some blessed notes from it! Dear Truth Seeker, I do not know you personally to give you any specific advice, other than to say that no amount of our good works can satisfy God, except to surrender to His Holy Spirit, to take the counsel of God’s Word, and call out on the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ to impact your life. When we simply surrender and humble ourselves before Him, He will do His good work in us. Your job is not to please the Church of Wells, but to surrender to God’s Holy Spirit. I am confident that God will bless the relationship with your child, you will be a blessing to them, and to your child. As Joshua said, “As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord,” have an attitude to come under submission to Almighty God, putting everything aside which contaminates the body and soul. Love in Christ, Moses.
Thank you Moses for being real in your last post. Do you realize this was one of the few times that you have not been judgmental, instead you actually explain what has been happening to you?
Can you share what Minnesota church you have been attending?
Dear Keith, As I shared in my other post, righteous judgment is a response to Christ’s call to love. We cannot say that we love someone with agape (Christ-like) love and not use righteous judgment….it is simply cruel to exclude judgment at the expense of the spiritual death of a precious soul. During my early years of living in the US, there used to be much more preaching against sin than there is today…righteous judgment has literally vanished from the Church today, to the result that an entire generation has been raised up with a faulty view of the Gospel. Love in Christ, Moses.
Yes I will also agree Moses. Thank you for a humble post. I too have been convicted of different things over the years and as Truthseeker said, it is a lifelong process. Each believer is indwelt by the Spirit and is convicted by the Spirit. We learn and grow all at different stages in our life and are convicted about different things. I was convicted of judging other believers years ago based on a persons appearance or behavior but I have learned by their fruit that some of these people were/are believers just like me but with different convictions or learning stages. I do pray that families with children in the COW can be united. It would bring glory and praise to God and that’s what we were created for. God Bless!
Moses, why were you not paying attention in Church? You were sitting in Church “DAY DREAMING” and JUDGING the teens beside you???? Moses, do you have a car? Do you live in a nice home? Are you still working your high paying job? Aren’t you “IDOLIZING” these things? I believe I heard that your wife was accused of ABUSE towards Preethi by her and this group???? Why would you allow such slander against your wife that you are to Protect and Cherish? Moses you live such a DOUBLE STANDARD in EVERYTHING you do and say – I have two words for you and the CoW. CRIMINALS/JAIL!!!
Thank you Moses for your honest answer. That is the first post of yours that I can agree with. God convicts different people at different times about specific things He wants you to get rid of or change. God is constantly honing my behavior and things I choose to do and watch. And this will be a life long process. Just because one wears gold jewelry does not mean that it is an idol to them. It could be to some and they should not wear it if it is. Anything can be an idol. Anything. We just have to decide what our own idols are. One cannot judge others’ behavior by themselves and what are idols to them. I think you made that point well above. Thank you again for your honest non- judgemental response. I do hope to have a good relationship with my child yet I am not holding my breath…still no responses.
Dear Truth Seeker, I am afraid that you might be using my response to continue in some sin that you should be convicted by. Practicing continual, willful, unrepentant sin is a damnable condition which leads to condemnation in the lake of fire, whatever that sin might be. This is a sobering truth which is not emphasized in the church of today. Righteous judgment is the reasonable response to Christ’s call to love. The Bible says that “They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them. Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the Lord understand all things.”~Proverbs 28:4,5. Please do not shrink back from being righteously judged, even though it stings. If you find yourself continually loving the things that God hates, and hating the things that God loves including righteous judgment, then either you do not have the Spirit of God living in you, or you are in a backslidden state. Progressive salvation is emphasized by the Church of Wells, meaning that the Bible expects the believer to constantly experience conviction for sin in light of the holiness of God, and be turning continually away from sin into Christ-likeness, looking to the forgiveness that one has in Christ through repentance. It is the work of God that sanctifies and produces the fruit of God’s Holy Spirit. Many people look at the righteous judgment of the Church of Wells, and conclude that their actions are not a demonstration of the fruit of the Spirit. If we consider that many men of God empowered by God’s Holy Spirit demonstrated these actions: Baptist John in his strong rebuke of the religious leaders, Jesus Christ’s whipping of people in the temple and turning of tables, Stephen’s harsh speech against the council, Paul’s open rebuke of Peter and judgment of many people. etc. we can know that righteous judgment might manifest in ways that are not common in the christian circles today. God has raised up a group of people in the Church of Wells to raise up a standard (which is Biblically founded) in what Christ requires of His people, and how a church ought to function. In the case of specific things such as the type of clothing, jobs, education, entertainment, etc. the contention of the church members is not these specific things, but against something much deeper, about where a person’s heart is. The church does not have a dress code, but when they see immodesty they confront it because immodesty affects everyone within the church, not simply the person involved. If they see covetousness, it affects every one within the church, and they have to righteously judge. Covetousness can come from a rich person, or a poor person. Laziness can be a sin that can be contagious, and they take that seriously, from the young and old alike, men and women alike. Conformance to the ways of the world is a sin that affects the whole church, and they take that seriously. Within the church, we need to be mindful of how we might be a stumbling block to someone else. If a person has a multitude of external physical manifestations of the world which the person is unable to relinquish, it can mean that a person has not been regenerated by the Spirit of God, and no amount of personal discipline can earn one’s salvation. To the Christian, Christ says to “watch and pray,” so he/she will not fall into temptation, which is a sobering truth for all of His truly regenerated children. Love in Christ, Moses.
Moses, there is a BIG difference in holding someone accountable rather than JUDGING! As Christians we are to hold people accountable for their sins NOT JUDGE THEM – ONLY GOD IS TO JUDGE!!!
Yes I agree. Hold accountable as in bring blatant sins to their attention not make them to conform in order to accept them and their salvation. We are to confront a sin and then encourage them.
Dear Stacy, The Bible calls us to righteously judge. We cannot have a log in our eye if we go about judging. Love in Christ, Moses. 1 Peter 4: 13-19 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men’s matters. Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator”.Love in Christ, Moses.
Your judgement goes way beyond righteouse judging….. Sorry and look for the other logs as well.
Moses-
You did post verse 15. But did you actually read verse 15 or did you just pretend it is not there.
15 If you suffer, however, it must not be for murder, stealing, making trouble, or prying into other people’s affairs.
The COW is suffering because:
1- They have been accused of stealing.
(Stealing peoples children, stealing their freedom, stealing peoples money through extortion, stealing authority that does not belong to them.)
2- Murder of a child named Faith because of neglect and pride.
3- Making Trouble with the law, the community, the schools, the families.
4- Prying into other peoples affairs/Being busybodies (This is what they call Righteous Judgment.
They have no Biblical authority to do this. The verse you highlight clearly shows how unbiblical this group really is.
Dear Moses, In all seriousness the “Truth” is we know the tactics of the C.O.W. Press down and press down hard till the person breaks and has no will left. In case you missed it Mr. Maseo Gontheir wrote about it concerning one of their recruits. She was losing her strength. She had been gainsaying … wow months and months of gainsaying. In Texas the saying is “work em till the cows come home.” Heard it straight from the CoW’s mouth Press down Press down Press down. Even heard it straight from another one of them “that sometimes people go crazy and insane from the process…” I kid you not, Moses, those are their exact words …. hmmm just saying. Oh and I saw it also posted on Jakes wall about people developing “Distemper” from these procedures … you might want to check that out.
Wow, interesting and sad!
So tired of all the mindgames the C.O.W. and Now Moses like to play. But its not a game and that’s why Rick Trudeau was arrested. Someday all this insanity will end. Dear C.O.W. its a dangerous game to play hurting and abusing people to see how long you can go without getting caught.
“There are six things which the Lord hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him : Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, a false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers.” Proverbs 6:16-19
When one is arrested anywhere in the U.S., a statute/law is referenced on the paperwork and the officer describes the violation of that law, specifically. Always. In every case. That’s “the charge.” There is no charge and no arrest without that piece.
Then the defendant has the right to refute that charge. To explain how he didn’t do what an arresting officer thinks he did. There are laws in the U.S. against wrongful arrest. In the U.S., anyone detained for any reason is innocent until “proven” guilty (which really just means the process happens). In any case, there is always a written statement about what they’ve been accused of. A person can’t even be processed into a jail cell without it.
When a person is arrested, they are “Mirandized,” read a specific list of their rights related to the arrest and being charged with a violation of law.
No one can arrested or jailed absent a formal charge unambiguously communicated to the defendant. They are asked if they understand and sign multiple charging documents at every step of the process.
I’m genuinely disturbed by “Church of Wells” leaders (Sean, Preethi, Ryan, Jake and Moses David) repeated open allegations that law enforcement and the U.S. criminal justice system in several states ignore their individual rights and violate their personal freedoms as citizens.
These men openly complain – on Facebook, in writing, to the media, everywhere really – that law enforcement is subjecting them (as a group) to some alternative process outside of established statutory policy.
The members of this group don’t know why they’re arrested, at different times, different places, different members, for different reasons? They really don’t know? They sign tickets, citations, bail agreements, court appearances, etc., and don’t know what they’re signing? Really?
For personal reasons – having nothing at all to do with street-preaching – one of the men has issues with a woman in another state. He doesn’t know what a restraining order is? He doesn’t know what legal process is? His church leadership, his “elders” are counseling him to defy protective orders, to disregard lawful conduct and the direction of the court? Why? How is that wise?
In less-developed countries, ‘banana republics’ with unstable government, civil war, different factions and political groups, juntas and cartels, citizens get thrown in jail or even shot in the street for religious and political beliefs, ethnicity, and or even just open criticism of the government or the police. But not in the U.S.
These young men and Moses David and his daughter Preethi are Americans with the benefits of resource and privilege. They’re far more educated. They have money. They have access to legal counsel.
In fact, Cherokee County, Texas law enforcement and criminal justice system has extended every courtesy to them – based on religion – giving them wide latitude for inappropriate conduct and excessive behaviour. Not because each of them individually deserves it independently, but because it’s a group that apparently has somehow garnered their confidence. They’ve been accommodated in ways that each of us wouldn’t be. So instead of complaining, why aren’t they grateful for that?
Moses David and his wife Mercy had the privilege of being allowed to immigrate to North America, first Canada, then the U.S. He is either foreign national status with a green card, or has been granted naturalized citizen status. It’s a privilege, not a right. It comes with a pledge to respect and obey law of the land in this country.
Mr. David: it is clear that you take your presence in this country for granted and do not respect national, state, or local laws, or the society that creates them. Please review your Oath of Allegiance and be sure that you still mean it and are truthful and genuine. It is your choice to live in America.
His children are first-generation citizens by virtue of birth, but have a relationship to another country by ethnicity, tradition and family. They likely enjoy dual citizenship and passports.
The rest of ’em are Americans by gift. Their parents and grandparents are American for several generations. But you always have the option to live as an expat somewhere else. I think the United States is too calm for you. Too many freedoms and choices and rights that you take for granted. Feel free to emigrate somewhere that you can beat your chests and gnash your teeth and really feel like you’re in danger.
Civil disobedience is a serious thing. In any country.
Thank you Q !!!
More intelligent words have not been spoken in this thread, Q. Moses and his family may not be a proper fit for a country in which SO many wonderful freedoms are available to ALL. Mr. David and his wife come from a place in which wearing gold jewelry symbolizes something negative and yet, they chose to settle in a country that allows EVERYONE to wear what they choose because we are ALL free to do so. No caste system here to hold anyone down!! Mr. David lacks the ability to determine the difference between utilizing a public park and applying for food stamps or medicaid. He does not know the difference between something that we ALL pay for the use of, and public ASSISTANCE programs that only some qualify to utilize when they are having difficult times. He is the PERFECT spokesman for a cult like the cow. TOO much freedom has caused him and his family to feel out of control and so, they gravitated towards a group that seeks total control. How ironically wonderful to live in a country in which the Davids can belong to a group that declares that they are being “persecuted” when they are actually receiving more freedoms than the families of individuals whose loved ones are being held by this group.
Dear We See Through You, By God’s grace we have been freed from the empty traditions of men, both from the east, and from the west. We are blessed to be in this country, and yes, we enjoy the freedoms, but things are changing very fast in this country. The members of the Church of Wells were arrested illegally in many places for preaching the Gospel in public places where they are supposed to have the freedom. Brother Ricky does not have the freedom to read the Bible to his beloved son! Love in Christ, Moses.
Moses, maybe SCREAMING in people’s faces is a bad idea to begin with. HOW was your “Brother Ricky” arrested Illegally?
Again, “Brother Ricky” was not put in jail for trying to read his son the Bible. Just stop it. Rick was originally placed in jail because he threatened someone’s life and told them HE knew when and where they would die. Period. That alone is not only against the law and a threat but for Rick to dare try and say he knows when someone will die is a horrible sin. Why didn’t Brother Ricky let the other elders know when Faith would die and when? If he has such insight? Why only use it as threats against people….why would he not use this great gift to let the elders and parents know Faith was going to die on X date the same way he told his ex he knew when she was going to die? Ever thought of it like that Moses? Brother Ricky frequently tells people who want to leave or won’t give in to his manipulation they are going to die, they are going to be put in a mental hospital. These are threats he uses to keep people there. Most likely the same threats Catherine has been told when she has tried on two attempts to muster the strength to run. Brother Ricky is sick. Brother Ricky was put in jail because he made threats that he was legally responsible for. He wasn’t kept from reading the Bible to his son, his son is being protected from his outrageous threats against the life of his mother. Brother Ricky needs to come to terms his son is not going to come to Wells to live.
Afraid of gold jewelry and children playing. Afraid movies will cause you to slip. You don’t believe in your God, Moses. Your God seems to be very small and tenuous. You seem to lack genuine faith. So easy to fall…
You are an adult man of advanced age and experience. I am telling you to counsel the young men of this group against illegal aggression towards women, to hold them accountable for abusive behaviour, and yourself as well. You must. Tell them to obey protective orders. Tell them to address grievances and issues properly. You must.
Dear Q, I believe in the Scriptures, which are the compass for daily living: “Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”-2 Cor 7:1.
I am not aware of any illegal aggression towards women, in fact, this place is very safe for women….nothing fishy happening as you might be imagining…there is a commitment not to defile the marriage bed, the bachelors are held to the highest standards of moral purity, and there is great accountability among them.
Love in Christ, Moses
Quite right, I don’t imagine anything “fishy” happening.
You are aware. You’ve made excuses. You absolutely should not. You must hold yourself above reproach, if you wish to be a leader of younger men. You must model decency and good behaviour to young men in your charge and under your spiritual guidance, as an older mature man. You must never make excuses for another man breaking society’s laws, no matter how much you may personally dislike and disrespect. That’s your responsibility. That’s the cost of living in society. That’s the expectation of being Godly. That’s the price of leadership.
Calling women “shamed-face” “whores” “harlots” “wildbeasts” is emotional and psychological abuse and aggressive and cruel and willfully sinning ; not being Christ like and VERY dis-honoring of women. You just don’t know what you are talking about Moses. AND this was in public what do they do in private ?
Too bad they aren’t held accountable for their morality toward the law and its citizens….. Threatening women and and children is verbal abuse. Not obeying trespassing laws is also morally wrong. And of course you say it’s a safe place for women, they can’t go outside of the compound to speak to anyone or go anywhere. Unfortunately the verbal abuse from faulty preaching, lies, deception, and just the lack of freedom is not safe at all…..
This is your opportunity and God- given duty, Moses, to keep these men accountable. I pray you do the right thing.
Love the verse Moses. But did you forget to read the very next verse?
2 Cor 7:2
Please open your hearts to us. We have not done wrong to anyone, nor led anyone astray, nor taken advantage of anyone.
– The COW has been accused of doing things wrong.
– The COW has been accused of leading people astray.
– The COW has been accused of taking advantage of people.
If I took Bible verses out of context all the time, would you think of me as a false teacher?
I wonder if you were willing to compare every Bible verse they give you with the in-context collection of surrounding of verses, then would you see what we see?
And there you have it. If you look at Sean’s writings…all of them including the Doctrine of Judgement, all scripture he uses to back up his words is out of context. I have taken some time to look many of them up and researched their meaning in context. They do NOT back up what Sean writes. Has anyone seen the Esurance commercial with Beatrice saying “that’s not how this works! That’s not how any of this works”? That reminds me of how CofW uses scripture. That’s not what it means! That’s not what any of it means.”
Funny you saw that- I think I used that same reference above somewhere.
That not how it works, that’s not how ANY of this works. Should be the new motto.
Moses said, “Dear Truth Seeker, I am afraid that you might be using my response to continue in some sin that you should be convicted by. Practicing continual, willful, unrepentant sin is a damnable condition which leads to condemnation in the lake of fire, whatever that sin might be.”
How on earth did you get THAT from my response?
HAHA I was wondering the same thing.
I am laughing sorry …… just humorous …..
Dear CoWinJAIL, It is not a humorous thing to suffer condemnation in the lake of fire. The practice of continual willful sin is a damnable state regardless of whether a person is a Calvinist, or an Armenian, or otherwise. Salvation is found in the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ. Love in Christ, Moses.
You have misunderstood my humor Moses. I was not laughing at the truths of the Bible AT ALL. I take them very seriously. You taking them lightly and just casting off families as though they don’t matter and are insignificant is a very serious offense. Many many families have been traumatized injured and harmed from siblings to grandparents to parents by the cow men. This is TRULY an abomination to our Lord Jesus Christ. You should take seriously Proverbs and do some serious praying before it is too late and I am being extremely sincere. I am concerned your soul and heart and mind have been compromised.
Dear Truth Seeker, The Bible says that “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”-2 Tim 4:3,4 We need to be mindful of surrounding ourselves with teachers/teachings which will help us to remain in sin. When we examine ourselves in the Light of God’s Word with humility, we begin to understand our transgressions. Love in Christ, Moses.
What if CoW are the ones with the itching ears? What if the sound doctrine they are abandoning is that of love and grace? What if the fables being turned to are that of legalism and unrighteous judgement?
That may be something to think about…
Moses stated: “God has raised up a group of people in the Church of Wells to raise up a standard (which is Biblically founded) in what Christ requires of His people, and how a church ought to function.”
I would say to this statement that I see nowhere in the Bible that children should judge, distance and ignore their parents. In fact it is a commandment with a promise to honor your parents. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that church members should not let their parents see and hold their grandchildren. The members of this church are practicing continual willful unrepentant sin which you warn so much about!
Dear Truth Seeker, I pray that you will be united with your child in the peace of Christ. It is not their desire to dishonor their parents. The greatest way to honor a parent is to follow God’s will above everything else. It is God’s will to honor one’s parents, and I pray that they will do so, but this cannot happen at the expense of their walk with the Lord. Love in Christ, Moses.
Moses, You love to talk in circles and are very contradictory……Im beginning to think there is a mental issue here and I believe Satan is at work. Keith’s post had very good insight to what is and has been happening in your life.
Answering a text or e mail will not interfere with their walk with the Lord. They have been deceived.
No, you don’t pray any such thing. You don’t want anyone “united” or for anyone to honor parents.
That would upset your apple cart. It suits you personally to have everything exactly as it is. You don’t want anyone to be any better than they are right now, nor for anyone to slip out of your control.
I AGREE completely Moses is NOT praying at all that families be reunited or that parents be honored. In fact that is completely against the Doctrine of Judgment … LIES AGAIN
Let’s play a game of “Guess That Contradiction!”
First, Moses said this nugget of truth.
As long as you follow the teachings of Christ and His Word, …then you do not need anybody to authenticate your salvation.
I agree with this 100%! This is where I am and how I live my life. Why, then, do my loved ones in CoW refuse to have any contact with me? Remember, I have reached out multiple times. I have not talked to my loved ones in almost 3 years. Sooo… where does that leave me?
But wait, there’s more. Let’s look at two of Moses’ following statements.
…It is the responsibility of the leaders of this church to assess and know the spiritual condition of the people that want to interact with their church members, to protect their church members from ferocious wolves in sheep’s clothing.
From the Church of Wells perspective however, they need to know your spiritual condition in order for them to interact with you in an appropriate way, and in order to protect their church family.
To assess and to know. Who gave them this power? First you’re saying that only Christ can do this… then you give this power to CoW.
I’ve attempted to share my spiritual state many times. Yet, what Christ and His Spirit have authenticated in me, CoW has deemed unworthy. Again, who gave them this extraordinary power of prophecy?
The other thing I take issue with is this who “protecting the flock” thing. While church leaders do have an obligation to protect their flock, they also have an obligation to raise up the flock. Their members cannot remain spiritual babes drinking milk forever – lambs must eventually grow into sheep who are capable and mature enough to live in the world around them. Granted, they won’t be “of” the world… they will simply be mature enough to handle it and be “a light in a dark place.”
Dear Tarka, Every true Christian leader (shepherd) is called to assess the spiritual condition of the sheep that are under his authority, and to protect them from ferocious wolves. True shepherds look at every intrusion, to know if they are sheep, goats, or wolves. Ultimately Christ is the Good Shepherd, but He appoints shepherds in local assemblies to guard His flock. Love in Christ, Moses.
How does Jesus Christ or God “appoint” a shepherd of a local church? How does that actually happen?
Moses-
Quote from Moses: “Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the Lord understand all things.”~Proverbs 28:4,5. Please do not shrink back from being righteously judged, even though it stings. If you find yourself continually loving the things that God hates, and hating the things that God loves including righteous judgment, then either you do not have the Spirit of God living in you, or you are in a backslidden state.”
Moses-
Why are you not willing to hear the righteous judgment against you?
(You don’t like it when God is righteously judging your continual sin of pride and lying?)
Please do not shrink back from being righteously judged, even though it stings.
(You must submit to God’s righteous judgment against your continual sin of pride and lying.)
You are loving the things that God hates. Remember the 7 things the Lord hates from Proverbs 6:16-19.
(Remember we are talking about your continual sin of pride and lying.)
Why do you hate the righteous judgment coming from God against your continual sin of pride and lying?
(Either you do not have the Spirit of God living in you, or you are in a backslidden state yourself.)
Quote from Moses: “We cannot say that we love someone with agape (Christ-like) love and not use righteous judgment….it is simply cruel to exclude judgment at the expense of the spiritual death of a precious soul.”
Moses-
I am telling you about your continual sin of pride and lying because I love you with agape love. It would simply be cruel to exclude judgment from you. Your precious soul is why I must continue. Anything less from me would not meet what you believe is the Biblical definition of love. From your beliefs, you risk losing your own salvation if you don’t repent of your continual sin of pride and lying.
The words directly the Lord from Matthew 7, explains that you are being Biblically and Righteously Judged.
Matthew 7:1-5
1. “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Moses-
I urge you to take seriously my comment about the demonic spirits of “Pride and Lying.” This was not hate. You are being destroyed by these 2 demons literally in front of the world, and I cannot do anything to stop it because you are the authority over own life. Please set an appointment with Pastor Bob K. Or with the Lighthouse group. (I can give you several other names of people that focus on this ministry.)
– Submit to God.
– Confess your sin to God.
– Put on the Armor of God.
– Name the demons directly by their sin quality and cast them out of your mind.
– Stop submitting yourself to the demons of Pride and Lying.
– Stop robbing God of the Authority that belongs only to God.
– Start submitting yourself to God.
– Start ripping the idol of perfection out from your own life. You have made your personal quest for perfection into an idol in your own life. Real men of God don’t seek perfection in their own lives, which is a mark of pride. Real men of God seek to continually rip sin out of their own lives and they trust God’s Grace through the process.
– You have the authority over your own life.
– Deal with your own continual sins.
Dear Keith, May God bless you with revelation of His glory, so you may comprehend Him in His fullness. May he raise you up to stop the murders of souls happening in your church by the deceived, backslidden, and false religious leaders there. Love in Christ, Moses.
As asked of you, what aren’t you willing to hear the righteous judgement against you? Are you above reproach?
I would seriously pray for your own forgiveness of sins…..
All of the writers on this forum that continually try to point out to Moses and any that would be swayed by the darkness that is over the CoW, I thank you. Your constant steadiness and the pointing to Scripture to make your points are like a drink of cool water to my soul.
The incessant judgement that comes from the CoW is at times unbearable. I do feel quite sorry for poor little Moses, who has been blinded along with so many others. One of his biggest idols is his daughter. His fear of losing her has caused him to put her over his love for God.
Some time back, Truth Seeker mentioned that we should pray for him, and I have not remembered to do that. For that, I apologize and will vow to pray for Moses more often.
Again, thank you to all of you who speak with boldness.
Dear Thankful for Boldness, Light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not comprehended it. Love in Christ, Moses,
How’s that light shining going for the COW in the community of Wells? Since they all stay in hiding and can’t talk to anyone outside their cult group without getting arrested, how is that being Christ-like?
Thank you Keith. my heart is sad. I am continuing to pray steadfastly for the love of God to permeate these men’s and Mose’s hearts that the sins these demons of pride and lying would come under the submission of our Lord Jesus Christ in these men’s lives and be cast out. There is no honor in their actions.
Dear Praying, Righteous judgment is a response to Christ’s call to love. It is a cruel thing to deceive people into false christianity and to give them the false assurance of the hope of salvation. Love in Christ, Moses.
I’m still praying for you Moses.
What’s CRUEL is being brainwashed by the Doctrine of Judgment. That’s whats CRUEL. PERIOD…. a waste of a life … and Moses that you are encouraging it on all these young naïve foolish young people is even MORE CRUEL and EVEN MORE EVIL … May God have mercy on your soul …
Where in the Bible does God define Love?
1 John 4:7-20 (God loved us so much he died for us… Love casts out fear, Love does not hate other people…
1 Corinthians 13:4-9 (Love is patient, kind, …)
John 3:16 (“For this is how God loved the world: He gave[a] his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.)
*** Please don’t forget about this amazing truth of God’s word concerning Love ***
Romans 13:8-10
8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.
9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”[a] and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[b]
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Please think about 3 years ago. If you came across someone 3 years ago that was ignoring numerous Bible verses explaining God’s definition of Love and instead started trying to redefine the definition of Love. Wouldn’t you have spotted them as false teachers?
Yes, I too will be praying for them all. And also for the families of loved ones who are there. I just don’t understand why they can’t pick up the phone to talk with their families or send a message via text or facebook. Such control when they are in fear of doing so. I pray that God will release Satan from their grip.
Dear Guest, The church members have the freedom to text or call anyone that they please. They frequently communicate with their church family members. They weep and pray for the salvation of their family members, and would love to interact with them in Christ, not in the ways of the world. Love in Christ, Moses.
Then why aren’t they calling! As you have seen here many of these parents and families ARE believers……don’t judge them as not when you do not know them. So you are telling me that they can’t even talk to them just because they might not agree with COW completely? Nonsense, this is not God-honoring and you know it. They are not very secure in their faith if they can’t talk to anyone outside the group.
I would advise them to contact their relatives and show honor to them. That’s what God want. They wouldn’t even need to speak of COW or their beliefs…. Just talk about how they still love them and that they are doing fine and just share how things are going with their families etc. And don’t start in on the “at the expense of their walk with the Lord”. If this is risking what they believe then they aren’t very strong in their faith and are not secure and free as a believer……
By not being in contact they are living in continual sin. They need to realize this!
Dear Praying, The church members would love to talk to their family members about God. They might not be inclined to speak to some parents because of their aggression against their church. If they repeatedly reject their church and call them a cult, then the members might not have an inclination to speak to them. Would you like to speak to your father-in-law if he repeatedly keeps calling your husband as a cult-leader, or your son as a murderer, or a thief, or a criminal? How about, if he wants to steal you from your family? A relationship works when there is a conducive atmosphere to maintain that, not when there is aggression and rejection of the things most dear to you. Love in Christ, Moses.
And we weep and pray for them to contact us. Seems to be a bit of a cycle here!
They see everything and everyone as a threat. Its a shame they live in such fear and paranoia. They don’t see their position in Christ and their freedom. They are still living in bondage….
What makes you believe the ways of the world are not “in Christ”? How can that be? That makes no sense at all. You just want to be isolated all by yourselves, somehow off the planet Earth. God never said do any such thing.
Jesus said you have the power to pick and choose your behaviour and your companions. Jesus Christ never preached a need to be wrapped in cotton and placed behind glass, out of reach of sticky fingers.
What are you saving yourself for? What are you so terrified of? Your mom and dad and brothers and sisters? The people who love you best and forever, no matter what you do? Your parents changed your stinky diapers. They’ve seen the worst and the best of you.
What a waste of youth, intelligence, creativity. How can you squander God’s gifts so ridiculously? What utter paranoid foolishness.
Key Word : “They frequently communicate with their ‘church family members.'” Note to Families : You must be a member of the CoW to have communication…. otherwise you just get weeping from a distance but no to little communication … that just sounds so Godly and so Christ-like … is that what Jesus did weep from a distance … LIES MOSES LIES AND MORE LIES
I don’t believe that Moses David’s compulsion and loyalty to the “Church of Wells” group leaders is because of devotion to his daughter Preethi or fear of losing her.
I think it’s simply well-matched. It’s about his own pride. Never mind Preethi; he’s found something that reflects his own dogma back to him and a place where he’s ‘at home’.
He positioned Chris Faulkner as a leader in his own home church, straight out of this group. They all have the same doctrine, bible interpretations, and religious practice. It’s a no-brainer that he would appreciate Sean and Ryan’s philosophy.
It’s not about Preethi at all.
Dear Q, Jesus Christ died for my sins! I cannot deny Him…shall trouble, or persecution separate me from the love of Christ, NO…..may it never be! Love in Christ, Moses.
Right. I get it.
Oh my … Moses you are not being persecuted for the Gospel. Nobody on here is arguing with you about the Gospel…. all everybody wants is to see and hear from their kids. Remember the commandment honor your mother and father. But your arrogant stubbornness might just land you in jail too along with the Cowboys … you just might then find Jesus in JAIL. I am praying for your deliverance from Hell’s bondage … “The Doctrine of Judgment.”
He’s confirming that his commitment to Sean Morris and Ryan Ringnald has nothing to do with keeping a relationship with his daughter Preethi.
~ It’s about himself.
I concur!
The men of this group have never been arrested illegally. For anything. Ever. Please refer to the charging documents to know what violations are.
It’s absolute full cowardice that reverses any point they think they’re making, when they bail themselves out of jail, sign documents acknowledging their understanding and agreeing to comply in front of judges and police officers. If they truly don’t understand their actions, what point can they possibly make?
Get them an attorney to explain. Then when they exercise civil disobedience and law-breaking representing the Christian community, it will be conscious action by choice. Instead of naughty juvenile pranks that they don’t know what they’ve done. They owe that to themselves and to Christians everywhere.
Brother Ricky is under court-ordered restrictions and rules of conduct on a matter that has nothing whatsoever to do with religion or this Texas group. If he didn’t agree, he shouldn’t have agreed. That was one of his options, but not the honest one.
He should have told his attorney the truth. He should contact the New York court at once – tomorrow – to inform them that he doesn’t understand and doesn’t agree. He will then be exercising his righteous rights and freedoms responsibly and will have the opportunity to explain himself.
Moses isn’t too far from retirement from the 3M Corporation. Vested. 401K. Then what? Does he move to Wells? Live off of patent royalties? Will he be taking over from Sean? He’s in a better financial position to support 100 people (49 babies). The couple of wealthy parent/grandparent donors must be getting a little tired of carrying the whole thing.
That’s a lotta diapers.
Let’s see if his actions back up his beliefs…..
Here it is again. We need to pray !
http://therothshow.com/2014/01/one-church-of-wells-deacon-threatens-to-kill-if-he-doesnt-get-his-way-do-what-i-say-or-god-will-strike-you-dead-really/
Basically the same article put out by a different news but an easier read:
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/roth/140127
Sadly, they don’t have that freedom. But of course you say that; what else could you say? But here’s the funny thing – it’s in direct open contradiction to what Sean and Jake say. Both men have said on-camera that they must cut those ties.
I would think so! A given. Doesn’t need to be said. Why do you point that out?
I suspect the weeping and praying is about missing their parents, families and friends. Perhaps they weep and pray because they’re stuck there and want to go home.
There’s constant reference to weeping and praying, groaning, beating of the brow and renting of the garments. These people seem to be terribly unhappy.
A very sad truth is that if one of their family members dies while the children and grandchildren are so piously hidden away in this twisted form of a church, these ‘kids’ will regret that they cut off family and friends and will have years of crying out in pain for that loss. Yes, they are being led and taught in a twisted guise of scripture, but really it is their choice. They are putting their ‘faith’ in mere men, and they will be disappointed. I have lived that truth, so I know what I’m saying. God does hear my cries, He is my Comforter, my Redeemer, but the reality of having behaved much of how the way CoW is doing is sickening and I regret it. I would spare anyone that pain, therefore I believe God has placed me in the middle of this to pray and shine light and help however I can.
Thank you Just Wondering for posting this for Moses to see. Maybe his heart will be softened and his calloused cruelty to others will lessen …. I asked him in another post if he would give me a suggestion how to contact my loved one but he has not answered back. I believe the truth is Moses knows all of their mail, phonecalls,etc. is monitored and there is no chance of getting communication to anyone at the C.O.W. without the supervision and permission of the leaders. I saw a quote yesterday on the faithboardhost about Adolf Hitler. By their actions by their fruit they appear to be mirror images … How did it happen and Why ? We will pass on. Who will hold them accountable ?
Just wondering, thank you for reaching out to these families and children and for your willingness to share your experience. I believe God has put you through that for this very purpose. We can only hope and pray that they will heed the warnings that are being sent to them by many many Godly leaders. Stay strong! God never fails.
Dear God, please put doubt in the members of COW’s minds, cause them to obey your Spirit’s promptings to trust in you and you alone and not in a false doctrine presented to them at COW. Please create in them a longing to see their families and want to interact with them. Open their eyes so that they see the falseness of the teachings there and want to flee from it. Please help them find a way to leave and provide safety for them when they decide to do so. Please allow the leaders to seriously seek your will and to accept righteous judgement. Lord, we trust in you and your Word and know that you are always in control. Amen.
Dear Just Wondering, Yes, the time is running out….the families can take sides with God’s people, and not reject them, at least hear them out, simply listen to what they have to say about God….they would be very happy to share with their family members about God. What do the families have to lose? Even if they do not agree with the teachings, at least quietly listen to them? The church members would have no inclination to have a relationship with their family members if they keep calling them a cult, and have a hostile relationship with them. My advice would be to hear them out, and do not reject them because everyone is doing that based on unrighteous slander! Several church members visit their families and share Christ with them. I mentioned about a church family that we hosted, who visited their family members (siblings, grand parent, and extended family, and wife’s mother and sibling, not the man’s parents because the parents live outside the country) and they were mutually blessed. What is the harm in having a relationship like that? If they cannot visit, maybe the family members can visit them, several parents do that, and maintain a reasonable level of interaction with their children. Love in Christ, Moses.
I don’t think COW will allow that Moses. So if the families come and listen to their child and they each share their beliefs with no acknowledgement either way of accepting or rejecting their doctrine, then they can have a relationship?? It sounds like families are waiting to hear from their children and trying to contact them. How is this meeting even possible when they won’t call or contact their families?
And will they be able to have this meeting alone with their children like grown mature adults able to think and talk all by themselves?
Yes can Catherine have some time alone with her parents without your daughter stuck to her? And Sean (I know you’re reading this and probably writing for Moses too), don’t worry, I’m sure by now Catherine’s indoctrinated enough that her parents can’t lure her away (meaning, I’m sure it’s “safe” for her to go out alone with them as wolf-like as they may be).
I posted this question above Moses. If you have time could you please truthfully answer. Dear Moses, By your previous answer above to my question about your facebook post referring to I Samuel Abigail Nabal and David : Are you implying you do not know anything about the level 5 parents in the Doctrine of Judgment written by your son-in-law Sean Morris ? Are you implying you are ignorant that Sean Morris compares parents who disagree with the Church of Wells to dogs and swine and Nabals ??? Are you implying that you are unaware of the doctrine in “Familial Judgment” taught by Sean Morris about Abigail and Nabal and the Church of Wells and the level of Parents as described by Sean Morris in the Doctrine of Judgment ? Waiting for a reply / Abigail
Dear Abigail, I do not read many books other than the Bible. I have not read the “Condescension of God” even though it was written by my son-in-law! What I wrote about Abigail is what God taught me through the personal study of His Word. It is an amazing thing that God does not condemn Abigail for hear actions against her evil, faithless husband! In faith, Abigail took a big risk, because she took sides with God’s people, with a man after God’s own heart….King David. Love in Christ, Moses.
Dear Moses, you might just want to pick up a copy of the Condescension of God as well as the Doctrine of Judgement written by your son-in-law. They seem to use them as well as if not more than the Bible.
Dear Truth Seeker, I have a copy of the Condescension of God, but have not had the time, to read it. From the little that I have read in it, I was blessed to see the truths being backed up solidly with Scripture. Love in Christ, Moses.
Dear Moses, how about the Doctrine of Judgement? Have you flipped through the pages of that one? Or Jacob Gardner’s Case Against Xmas…you used to celebrate Christmas yet God did not strike you dead….
Then you are a fool and a hypocrite if you are supporting these men calling them wise great men of God like you are here on this blog and you have not even read what this man, Sean Morris, wrote in his Doctrine of Judgment. Moses, the philosophy of the cow is based on that document. Moses your hypocrisy is a gross sin and I am calling your name out on it. You are violating so many families by blindly endorsing them as you have just clearly admitted. The man scripts in his own hand these words on the very first page “God wants to kill us and shoot us in the head and drag us out to a desolate field.” That is violent abusive psychotic. It’s not hidden and it’s not buried. I’m sorry Moses but you have lost all of my respect. What’s wrong with you ? ? ? How could you believe that ? ? ? Moses, do you believe God desires to kill people ? Sean Morris does.
Dear Abigail, I do not seek the respect of men, but seek it in God’s will. The wrath of God is explained clearly in God’s Word, so there is no need to temper it down with human words. Sean was merely portraying the wrath of God towards the unrepentant sinners, which is the Truth. There is no Gospel without the bad news of God’s wrath, which God has ordained for the wicked, for we are born in sin, in wickedness. The judgment of a righteous and holy God against all iniquity is His holy and just wrath! God’s wrath is righteous because He is a Perfect Judge. Because He is the Omnipotent, Almighty God, no one can escape it, except in repentance resulting from Godly sorrow. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. The Bible does not say that the love of God is the beginning of wisdom. It is true that God loved us before we loved Him, but it is primarily the fear of God that is the starting point for wisdom. Any wisdom that does not start there is not God’s wisdom! John 3:36 “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” Love in Christ, Moses.
Do you believe Moses that God wants to KILL people ? Because Sean Morris does. That is my question.
How sickening and demonic! God will be their judge and it won’t be pretty. Judgement will be harsh on those “religious leaders” who deceive!
Moses, you still have not answered my question concerning your foreknowledge of the Doctrine of Judgment. Once again : Are you implying you do not know anything about the level 5 parents in the Doctrine of Judgment written by your son-in-law Sean Morris ? Are you implying you are ignorant that Sean Morris compares parents who disagree with the Church of Wells to dogs and swine and Nabals ??? Are you implying that you are unaware of the doctrine in “Familial Judgment” taught by Sean Morris about Abigail and Nabal and the Church of Wells and the level of Parents as described by Sean Morris in the Doctrine of Judgment ? Waiting for a TRUTHFUL reply / Abigail
Dear Abigail, Yes I know about the Doctrine of Judgment, but that had nothing to do with my post about Abigail, the righteous lady who protected KIng David from the shedding of unrighteous blood. God did not condemn her rejection of her evil husband in preference to be with the people of God. Love in Christ, Moses.
Moses, what is your opinion of this philosophy “Familial Judgment” Sean Morris has conjured up and written ? I believe Sean Morris desires to be like God, but instead he has become like the Angel of Light Satan desiring to directly control people to have power over life and death. He pervertedly uses this Doctrine of Judgment claiming from the book of Micah that Jesus does not teach young people to honor their mothers and fathers but instead to dishonor them. He uses those words and quotes from the book of Micah and says the commandment to honor your mother and father is no longer required in the new testament. Instead he wants to draw blood bring the sword to the family. I’m sorry Moses but it is Psychotic. To fully control people to be like God directing life and death Sean must effectively cut them off from all communication from their families. It’s very wrong Moses for a young person to call their mother their father a “Dog” and a “Swine.” Would you ever do that to your mother or father. That is most assuredly much worse than the young man you sat next to in church thinking about football. What would you think of this young man if you heard him calling his mother a harlot a dog a swine ? How can you endorse this insolent dishonoring rude obnoxious behavior by this man, Sean Morris, towards elders towards parents toward Grandparents ? I truly want to know if you honestly and with your heart soul and mind believe in this Familial Judgment to stone one’s parents ; murder one’s parents spiritually and call them swines and dogs. It is so wrong. In my honest opinion it comes from the mind of a very sick and wicked and evil man. I believe the same spirit that was in Adolf Hitler. Waiting for your HONEST reply. Abigail
Hmmm doesn’t sound like he knows much about Sean’s writings which seem to be held at a higher authority than the Word itself. Here we go in circles again….
Moses David, maybe you should borrow the pen out of Sean Morris’ evil hand and provide an answer for his “Familial Judgement” BS. Are you going to answer Abigail’s VERY, VERY pertinent question about YOUR son-in-law’s beliefs and writings?
Moses-
If you have not read the COW writings, then you received your knowledge of their doctrine from the same place they did. Directly from demons.
Please remember what I said before about the demons influencing you.
Demons would not need you to read books to learn a demonic doctrine. They can give you a demonic doctrine without a book.
First of all, I think you are lying about not having read their material. But if you are not lying, then you indeed have demons.
Have you given any thought to setting an appointment with Pastor Bob or Lighthouse?
Why would a person follow a Church and have so much passion and Faith in the goodness of the people if they are not familiar with their teachings and writings? It makes no sense to me. You say you know the man, you know him to be a good hardworking man, but you haven’t taken the time to read his works? You follow him and defend him but you don’t know what he writes about?
Your daughter marries this man with your blessing but you haven’t taken the time to read his beliefs?
How can you defend his teachings and say the things Moses says if you haven’t even read his book or refuse to answer questions about his personally written Doctrine of Judgment?
I am just without words.
Thank you Keith. Thank you for your insight and posts. Please stay involved and help all of us who keep trying.
I believe Moses’ commitment is not really about Preethi.
But I disagree that the COW suited Moses or Preethi. The COW doesn’t suit anyone. They are simply people being lied to and manipulated, initially by the author of lies “Satan”, then once they believe the lies, then they willingly participate in lying and manipulating others.
I believe the David family was recruited and manipulated, just like every other member. Their recruitment began more than 1 year before Preethi joined.
The David family attended my church for a number of years. They were not like this before 2012. This changed publically for them in 2012
Numerous people from our church tried to discuss these things with them and kept getting stuck in circular arguments, until finally most people drop out of the conversations.
There are several families that have not given up. We have structured our efforts differently, but we have not given up.
I am certain, that the COW was feeding COW tainted information to them during the previous year before they joined. But I have never received the answers about who in the COW was feeding COW information to them
Moses has identified that that he had not heard of the COW until September 2013. (4 months after he left his church of 17 years and started his own church/Bible study and 3 months after Chris Faulkner became an elder at his home church/Bible study.)
So my belief is that the David family might not have heard of their official name being “Church of Wells”. But they were indeed being influenced via facebook/email/Skype and personal contacts by supporters of the COW.
The David family had also attended a Paul Washer conference in 2012. (We know there is a Paul Washer connection with a number of families.) I believe COW supporters have gone to the conferences and they meet people there and become facebook/email/Skype friends and begin feeding them information. It probably could be any conference. The idea is that people going to these conferences already have a desire to be better Christians, therefore they might be interested in being the COW version of Super Christians.
I firmly believe the recruitment process starts about 1 year before anyone moves to Wells.
Part of the cult expert, Steven Hassan’s, material is to try to have conversations about what they were going through a year before they joined. (Asking questions about what/who was influencing their journey.)
For the David family, It was 2011/2012, during a small Bible study where the Bible study leader chose a commentary about 1st John, written by a Seminary Professor named Zane Hodges. (I believe that a COW supporter was feeding the David family with information about how Zane Hodges is a false teacher and any church that would ever use this commentary would also be a false church.) It probably could have been a commentary written by anyone. Because to the COW, most everyone is a false teacher, they would just accuse anyone that used any commentary that differs from the COW point of view would be considered a false teacher.
2 days after the David family left their church of 17 years, Moses announced he was starting his new church (Bible study) out of his house. The David family was now beginning to believe that nearly all churches are false, and they have no where else to turn except the group of people that has been feeding them the information to begin with.
A few months later, the family was contemplating moving to wells, and Moses stopped trying to be an elder of his own church.
Moses and Preethi have described that there was a time period with secret conversations between Preethi and the COW supporters before Moses had actually knew what was going on. The COW have since been able to also convince Moses that the best place for him to receive teaching is from COW.
The end result is that Moses probably believes this stuff because he has been recruited and worked on just like all the other members. I don’t think he believed this stuff 1st.
The RagBlog article was partly intended to dig into the recruitment process. But the recruitment process starts about 1 year before these people join. We have to get more information about what was happening during the previous 12 months before they joined.
(This information is grossly lacking. All we hear constantly is what happens after someone joins, then the families are blindsided with trying to figure out what is going on and how to process through mountains of COW writings, sermons, circular conversations, and accusations.)
A key item for recruitment is: COW recruits that have a desire to become better Christians. They meet someone who seems to be a “Super Christian” and the “Super Christian” tells them they are not good enough, but here is the path so you will be good enough.
What was going on in the recruits lives beforehand that was contributing them to be feeling that they were not good enough to be in God’s family without becoming a “Super Christian”. Or as the COW calls it a “True Christian/Believer”
“We have to get more information about what was happening during the previous 12 months before they joined. This information is grossly lacking. All we hear constantly is what happens after someone joins…”
You’re very right. Thanks for providing the background here in your comment.
Dear Keith,
We did not go to a Paul Washer conference in 2012, and we were not influenced by anyone from the Church of Wells or connected to them during the time we encountered the false doctrine of the Free Grace Theology of Zane Hodges at your church. Anybody with a good enough knowledge of the Bible, who is not trying to tickle his/her ears with the teaching that we are eternally safe regardless of our decisions and lifestyle of sin based on a past profession of faith would recognize the heresy in this doctrine. Sadly, your church leadership manipulated things to cover up the teaching of this heresy. We tried very hard for several months to work with your leadership, but sadly, they preferred to maintain church unity at the expense of the Truth. I think they made this mistake because some very important people in the church were involved, and your church also had the building expansion program for which you did not want any disruption. Even before any of these things happened, we expressed our discontentment with many things, including watered down, 1/2-hour sermons, sermons derived from the “Purpose Driven Life,” “The Truth Project,” etc. instead of from the Bible, book studies instead of Bible studies, the use of secular methods to run a church like a business, etc. We were continuing to attend there for many years in spite of our dissatisfaction simply because we had the opportunities to teach the Bible to the children and to the young adults. We finally left your church because of your strong stance in support of the heresy, and because you removed Preethi from any role of serving at the church, even though she faithfully served the children for over 10 years. She was reprimanded by your youth pastor for sharing the Gospel from “a fire hose.” Most of the children who grew up in the church, including the private Christian school affiliated to the church, who were our children’s peers are completely in the world now, many of them practicing fornication, drinking, etc.and many of them having a form of godliness without a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, forsaking the Savior who died for them. God knows that many of them were not saved in the first place, but were given a false assurance of salvation. The barometer of the spiritual health of the people is the relative attendance in a prayer meeting (not concerts of prayer) versus a jazz event, or a christmas musical. There is virtually no interest among people in the church to pray, but they are very busy with many other things such as dramas, concerts, video presentations, marriage amendments, etc. The Bible teaches clearly that “works” do not save, but faith in the Lord Jesus Christ saves. A person with a relationship with Jesus Christ would like to speak to Him in prayer, he/she would want to hear from God firsthand, from His Word. As I stated in another post, I cannot remember any elder in the church ask me for a testimony of Christ’s salvation of my soul in over 23 years. That is a very scary thing!!! Loyalty to the church, and opportunities to serve kept us going for all these years. It is only a miracle of God that He preserved us by His grace, by teaching us from His Word, primarily through the Scripture in Awana and Bible Study Fellowship, even though there are many weaknesses in these programs. I pray that there will be a concerted effort in the church to get back to the basics of Christian life, with a desire to understand what it means to run a church without merely focusing on programs and planning, and running a church like a business. Sadly, the recruitment of accomplished people from the secular realm has caused the nature of functioning to change from a church to a business…it is a very, very sad story! Even more sad is the fact that most churches have become like that, not simply your own! We need a Spiritual awakening and revival in this country. You are all pitted against a group of people that God is raising up as a city on a hill. God has given a spirit of deception and slumber to many because they are drunk in adultery with the world. He will not let this happen too long….His return is imminent, and He will judge every heart….we need to be ready as the wise virgins, rather than be deceived like the foolish virgins. The time is running out! Love in Christ, Moses.
Sounds like this church was protecting it’s own flock from the false doctrine that was trying to be presented to them by your daughter. They had no other choice but to remove her if she was going to cause dissension in the church and not agree with the Biblical doctrine of the church that being that a believer is eternally secure. I’ve got news for you, there are many Godly people and pastors that God has raised up to teach this Truth.
Dear Moses, That’s all good and well. Moses, we do need a revival in this country and around the world … BUT I beg to differ with you about these particular men as being holy and righteous and the Godly ones. We are not as you say “all pitted against a group of people that God is raising up as a city on a hill.” You need to go back to the Doctrine of Judgment. Its all there. The problem is all in that little document written by dearest Sean Morris.
Again Moses ONE MORE TIME : Do you believe God wants to KILL people ? Because Sean Morris DOES. That is the real Spit in this show …. Does God want to KILL people and does the End Justify the Means ? Do whatever it takes, right Moses, to convince people that God wants to Kill people … to terrorize them into repentance in the here and now …. I don’t think that is how Jesus spoke or acted or lived…. He is the GOOD SHEPHERD … the wolf wants to kill steal and destroy getting the picture Moses … Sean Morris is really the wolf … He is definitely not being raised up by God to be a City on a Hill. Self-Reflection Moses …. Wrath Judgment YES … BUT it’s not the same Moses as God WANTING DESIRING TO KILL PEOPLE. That’s Murder. Sean Morris has gone over the edge. You have forgotten God’s great mercy His son His death on the Cross His resurrection. “For God so loved the World that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” There is nothing there about God wanting to Kill people. Do you really want to be involved in teaching that God DESIRES TO KILL PEOPLE ?
Sean Morris DOES.
Wow that is a lot to sift through. Are you sure that your long list here does not count as slander? I will address a few items.
Moses-
Did you forget to add that your family was allowed to teach Awana through the entire time you were publically internet slandering your own church and the leaders. Then after you hit send or post, you drive to the church teach Awana.
Do you remember how the church leaders continued to let your family teach Awana for months even after they repeatedly asked your family to teach the approved Awana curriculum instead of your own curriculum. (They have authority to make that decision. Your family functioned as volunteer leaders. No different than me. I don’t get to pick my own curriculum for 9th grade guys. If I am not willing to teach the approved curriculum then I should not be volunteering, and the same goes for you and your family.)
Do you know how strange it felt to be in the middle of the heated internet conversations with you throughout the week and to walk up to you on Awana nights to sign the sheet to pick up my kid where you act like your normal friendly self?
I had brief face to face conversations with you about respect of the church’s authority. They have authority to decide what get taught by the volunteer leaders in their church. Your family ignored their authority.
The church leaders were unwilling to kick you out. They simply said, if you don’t want to teach the nationally approved Awana curriculum, then don’t be Awana leaders. It is that simple.
Did you forget how you left the church? Your family was functioning in your normal Wednesday night Awana leader roles and I spoke to you face to face. Then the very next day, you announced that you were starting your own church and your 1st service would be 4 days later on Sunday. By Friday you had a church website up. And on Sunday, you had your very 1st home church/Bible study service.
From my perspective, you were allowed to serve and teach all the way until you started your own church in a huff.
Moses-
I was overjoyed when I found out that Preethi and Mercy were assigned to my daughters Awana leader. For years, the David family has been inspirational to many and faithful to the Lord.
My family was created through adoption and rescued from the horrors of sin destroyed lives. Abuse, neglect, abandonment are the 3 reasons that kids get removed from their homes and placed into foster care. We are blessed to provide a safe and forever family for them.
I loved knowing that your family was going to influence my daughter for years. I loved how Mercy believed that our daughter could accomplish the Awana goal that only 30% of the students accomplish. I will never forget how even after you left the church, Mercy heard that my daughter needed an Awana volunteer to come in 2 hours early on the very last day of Awana just to hear her go through the last 21 sections of the Awana book all in one sitting. (This was because Mercy told her she could do it.) So Mercy called the other leaders to find someone able to do this. My daughter completed everything and received her Awana award. She dearly missed your family at the Awana award night. And your family is still missed.
We were overjoyed when we found out Preethi was getting a job at LearningRX. When we signed our daughter up for the class, we specifically asked when Preethi’s schedule was going to be because we wanted to continue the connection of developing a student/teacher relationship with a Godly woman like Preethi. We were discouraged when Preethi ultimatly chose not to work there.
Your family started changing in 2012. You did not used to be so prideful. You did not used to twist scripture and lie. You did not used to be so judgmental to everyone around you. Your family had an amazing Godly reputation and your family is missed.
I don’t understand why you would have chosen to destroy your Godly reputation. Your character qualities are no longer matching that of Christ. Think back to the man of God you were 3 years ago. The man of God that raised your family to love God and love people. The man of God that would go to Colby Lake weekly to talk to people about God without yelling at them. That is man of God that I trusted.
Dear Keith,
We did not attend a Paul Washer conference in 2012. We had no contact with anyone associated with the Church of Wells when we confronted your church leadership about the heresy of “Free Grace Theology” of Zane Hodges which was taught there. We were disappointed by many things in the church for many years, but we went along in the spirit of maintaining peace and unity, to the shame that many souls were deceived by our silence! We were blessed to teach the Bible to the children, so this was a highlight of our stay there, and we loved many people there, whom we still love, but we have to stand up for the Truth! Love in Christ, Moses.
Moses-
Why do you keep ignoring your deception?
– I was not trying to be deceptive with my intent when my timing was off 3 months. But you are the one that was trying to be deceptive with your intent. (Did you just commit a damnable sin?)
From Preethi’s Blog:
http://proclaimedfromtherooftop.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-testimony-of-preethi-david.html
” In Oct 2011, I had the chance to meet Paul Washer and to speak to him personally at length at the Desiring God conference. He prayed for me, and I felt that God fanned into flame the work of the Spirit and my Spiritual gifts at this time.”
Dear Keith, That was not a Paul Washer Conference (that the church members have been accused of targeting for recruitment), but a Desiring God Conference of John Piper. Paul Washer was merely displaying at a HeartCry booth. This was not a Paul Washer Conference…he was not even a speaker at the conference. More importantly, so people would not be misled by your explanation, we did not meet anyone even remotely connected with the Church of Wells people. The first time we came across the Church of Wells people was after we left your church in mid-2013, not one year before as you were misleading people to believe, is a “recruitment process” Love in Christ, Moses.
How long have you known Chris Faulkner Moses ?
Moses-
Thank you for clearing up the confusion about the Paul Washer conference. I can now see that October 2011 is probably a tad bit on the early side for the COW in person recruitment strategies. My intention has been to start piecing together how the COW finds their new members by trying to piece together how and when they really got connected with Preethi. (This continues to be an unknown item by most friends and family members.)
As an example: The fact that you did not know about Chris Faulkner being part of the COW even 2-3 months after you made him an elder at your church, is pretty shocking. It suggests that there is a lot that you don’t know about what was happening with their recruitment of Preethi. You also said she was having secret communications with the COW. Are they really telling you the truth or are they telling you what you will believe.
Tell me… If you discovered that the COW had indeed been manipulating you and your family, would that change your mind about how Godly they are?
” In Oct 2011, I had the chance to meet Paul Washer and to speak to him personally at length at the Desiring God conference. ”
Either way, the Desiring God National Conference was in September 2011. In Mineappolis, MN.
http://www.desiringgod.org/conference-messages/by-series/2011-national-conference
Paul Washer was in South America in October.
Did Preethi get her dates wrong? She blogs 9 times in October 2012; 4 posts in October 2011. No mention of a “Desiring God” conference.
What’s the difference with a couple of weeks, right? It could have been September and she just spaced it out.
Many souls are STILL being deceived by YOUR SILENCE, MOSES DAVID!!!
http://www.watchman.org/profiles/pdf/churchofwellsprofile.pdf
I like the analysis. But take it with a word of caution. It’s not completely accurate. The writer is a previous member himself and a close personal friend.
He attempts to soften the baby’s death. He can’t bring himself to accurately describe it as a resurrection attempt, not faith-healing.
In the profile, Dylan writes that Jake’s background isn’t really known. But he knows Jake Gardner personally, knows the entire group’s history, knows quite well where Jake came from and how he hooked up with them.
It can’t be easy to write about one’s friends and what you were involved in yourself. I feel for him.
Yes thanks,, I did notice that about the baby’s death. Good to know!
Dear Guest, Better one yet, directly from the elder…why choose a roundabout way?
http://www.thechurchofwells.com/friendship-with-god—a-cure-for-despondency.html
Love in Christ,
Moses.
That’s a good idea, Moses. Something everyone would benefit from. Win-win. How about you and the boys start responding to those many emails asking polite questions in an attempt to understand? How about you guys be a little bit human and try to appreciate the fact that people have tried to understand. Have tried to reach out. Have tried to figure out what you want, without the courtesy of a roadmap.
Begin by speaking contemporary English as a sign of willingness to communicate fairly and as a nod to courtesy.
If you can’t do that, it’s a clear gesture that you pick contentiousness and discord as a deliberate choice. That it serves you in some way and you want your group to behave badly on purpose.
The above is the background and teaching of COW and page 4 and 5 is a good Christian Response.
This is the interview – part 1 and 2 of a former Church of Wells member who was delivered by God and was able to have the courage to leave. He explains his thoughts and feelings before and after being there. It helps to see how someone there has a really hard time leaving and the guilt and fear they have. But praise God, he doesn’t fail us! Be encouraged by this rescue and never give up praying for your loved ones.
http://www.ketknbc.com/news/exclusive-interview-with-former-church-of-wells-me
http://www.ketknbc.com/news/exclusive-part-2-interview-with-former-church-of-w
Interesting looking at the run-down house or church building in the video…. What kind of example are they showing the community? This is a property that is Gods and paid for with God’s money. They should be good stewards of God’s money and put some paint and windows on this place. I know this is another topic but …..Just saying
Thank you for posting Guest. Moses needs to watch this. There are many hurting families. I’m still waiting to hear Mose’s HONEST Gut Opinion of Familial Judgment and Sean Morris commandment to Dishonor Parents and that the Jesus in the New Testament, according to Sean Morris, teaches the commandment Honor Your Mother and Father is no longer viable with the beginning of the New Testament. Unless Sean Morris tears up the Doctrine of Judgment and starts over Moses cannot explain it away. It is very clear in the Doctrine of Judgment that Sean Morris believes that dishonoring parents is vital to being a member of his church. And does Moses really believe God wants to kill people ? Because Sean Morris does. Waiting for an Honest Reply Abigail
This is the real reason why Rick Trudeau is in Jail. He thinks that God wants to kill his ex-wife and he told his ex this and that he knew the time and place. Have you heard the recording yet Moses ? …. I think this is all a bit scary strange abnormal with red flags everywhere and where is the FBI ??? or maybe they are watching recording and waiting …. and why did moses say above “Dear Just Wondering, Yes, the time is running out” is that a warning ? a threat ?
I have heard it. It is haunting. Truly haunting. Evil.
Wow I read his interpretation of scripture and his conclusion of the meaning. Haha is this twisted scripture or what? It was describing how bad the nation was that even families were enemies. This was a BAD thing! Has nothing to do with being part of salvation! And has no connection and ties with it meaning a different thing in the NT and to disregard the OT to honor your parents. This is a very simple meaning, don’t read into it with your interpretations and guessing. And the account of Jesus telling the man in Luke 9 that he had to leave his family behind, Jesus was showing the urgency to leave now and GO with Him and that there wasn’t anything more important than following Him. The point was that proclaiming Gods Word was important and couldn’t wait. Nothing there implies that this should be a permanent situation among the families and that they shouldn’t interact with them. The passage in Matt. 12 where Jesus is telling His family that his brothers and mother were the disciples while pointing at them, His point was that a family and physical relationships will not get them favor with God but only by doing the will of the Father. We could dissect every passage COW uses if we wanted to and read it IN CONTEXT, but they have their own meaning. Another sign of a cult where scripture is twisted to mean what you want.
Dear Moses,
Please get the charging statement and statute/administrative code number (located in the same place as the charge) from Rick Trudeau’s recent arrest in New York. Post it here, word-for-word, verbatim. Then describe how you believe it was an “illegal” arrest.
Same with all the others.
Dear Q, Christ has given a charge to brother Ricky to be a witness for Him, to bring the Truth of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ to his son. God willing, he will be able to do that! Even if he is prevented from doing that, God is faithful to answer the prayer of a faithful father. The God of Jacob, Isaac and Abraham is also brother Ricky’s God. May Jesus Christ be magnified! Love in Christ, Moses.
Not at the expense of hurting people, making threats, and breaking the law….. Oh yeah I forgot, the ends justifies the means……
Get the charges. And the applicable statutes that the police officer wrote down and asked Rick if he understood. Post them here. Then we’ll talk about what God thinks.
Please say what the statute violation is. Read the citation. It’s there. What did the police think he did? It doesn’t mean he did; it just means that’s what police think. So what did they think that caused them to arrest him?
It had nothing to do with church, the bible, the prophets, or the apostles, nothing from any past millennium. It has to do with 2014 New York state law.
So what does it say, Moses?
I am waiting to see this. Please Post Q !!! Don’t wait for Moses …. I believe he is still going in circles. He cannot see straight.
Yes please do!
He was arrested from a warrant issued from Judge Main under a Family Offense matter. The judge issued the warrant and set the bail. It is my understanding it had to do with the Family Matter before the court with the mother of his son. Whether it was tied to the previous threats against her that landed him in jail before is not known.
“Brother Ricky” is NO brother of Jacob/Leah, Issac/Rebekah, or Abraham/Sarah. He is a low-down, dirty con-artist criminal who is exactly where he belongs right now, and hopefully, the rest of the boys of the cow will follow very, very soon. Moses David, may your idols, Sean and the rest of the gang, have their crimes “magnified”(i.e..willful neglect of a child leading to her subsequent death, kidnapping, abuse, etc.) so that they can be put into prison for a very, very long time before they ruin the lives of anybody else. NOW, how about ANSWERING Q’s question? What are YOU trying to HIDE, David? Afraid that the TRUTH about Brother Ricky will be brought out from underneath the rock that he keeps all of his dirty secrets hidden? Stop behaving like a silly fool, Moses. YOU could be the one that rescues some of the innocent cult members from whatever is looming in their future.(Remember Waco??) Or would you rather just behave like the “good” people who did nothing in Nazi Germany and observed as countless atrocities occurred before their tightly-closed eyes! YOU still have the choice of free-will. So how about posting the information that Q requested….Afraid?
Don’t you believe in the power of prayer, Moses? Don’t you believe that God will bring the gospel to Ricky’s son if He wills it, and if Ricky can’t? Doesn’t Ricky believe this? Since he can’t physically and legally get to his son (by reason of his own doings and sinful behavior), he should be trusting God shouldn’t he?
Here is a link in which some background is given about Ryan from His own father. There are also messages from parents whose children are under COW’s control. This is real! So many hurting families! Pray pray pray!!
http://preyingonsouls.blogspot.com/2013/09/daughters-involvement-in-controversial.html?m=1
Romans 2:1-4 NIV
[1] You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. [2] Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. [3] So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? [4] Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?
Romans 14:1-23
Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things.
For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables.
Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.
Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s.
For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
For it is written:“As I live, says the Lord,Every knee shall bow to Me,And every tongue shall confess to God.”
So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.
Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died.
Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil;
for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God and approved by men.
Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another.
Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense.
It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.
Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.
Preethi David spoke to Paul Washer “at length.” They had a big conversation. Either in 2011 or in 2012. Hard to know. But they were best friends. And he approved “Church of Wells,” maybe? Or maybe it was “Church of Arlington.” Or is that when she was madly in love with Chris?
Gosh, it’s so hard to remember and keep it all straight.
Q, may I ask who is Chris? A love interest from before the one that she is with now? And she was “forgiven” by the cow for being in love before??? And cow members are not allowed to continue relationships with their PARENTS, the people who love them more than anyone in this world? The people who would do ANYTHING for them? SO INCREDIBLY CONVOLUTED! Hard to keep up with all of the players in this ridiculously delusional mess.
Chris Faulkner:
– Previous COW deacon. (Around 2010-2012. Was with the COW when they were Church of Arlington, and made the move to Wells.
– Purchased and donated a home to the COW in Wells.
– May have left the COW sometime in 2012 for reasons that have not been explained yet.
– Runs a Christmas light display setup company to come to your house and set your Christmas lights up. (Odd because the COW does not like what Christmas has turned into.)
– Runs a real estate/construction business in Texas.
– Assisted the COW in structuring their business known as Charity Enterprises Incorporated, where all the COW business are under this parent business.
– Chris Faulkner described on Facebook that he met people at a Paul Washer conference who really made him reconsider how committed he was. He was preached to for 8 hours one night by these people. Then shortly after that event, he moved to Arlington, Tx to join the COA.
– Chris Faulkner met the David family before the David family claims they had even heard of the COW. But also the same person (Linda Mann) that introduced them to Chris Faulkner apparently introduced them to Sean Morris
– In April/May 2013 Moses leaves his church of 17 years.
– In May/June 2013 Moses asked Chris Faulkner to be an elder at his newly started home church/Bible Study located in Minnesota that only had a handful of people. (However, Moses still did not know about the COW)
– Preethi in her blog described that she was impressed with his godliness and was thinking about him as a husband
– In Sept. 2013 Moses thinks COW is a cult and started contacting every parent to ask for help. Including contacting Paul Washer’s ministry.
– After Moses found out that Chris Faulkner was involved in the COW. Chris suggested to Preethi and Moses that the COW is bad news.
– In October/November 2013 Preethi visits and moves to Wells, TX.
– In December 2013 Preethi gets engaged to Sean Morris.
– Moses suggested to parents he was being blackmailed into giving Preethi to Sean in marriage.
– In January 2014 Preethi gets married to Sean Morris.
– Now Moses thinks the COW is not a cult and all his previous beliefs that anything was wrong with the COW is a result of him committing a damnable sin of slander. He has since repented of his sin and tries to convince other parents to do the same.
– Preethi in her blog now claims Chris Faulkner is a false prophet and was intending to take over our home “church”, to be a pastor in it, and to start his own kingdom (Come from Texas to Minnesota just to steal a church/Bible study with a small handful of people???)
Did I miss any of the major points?
Thank you, Keith. Very good synopsis. Appreciate the time that you took to put it all together! Wow, Preethi sure does have a fickle heart. Obviously a woman scorned… SO sad.
Chris has said he left Cow in May right before the death of Faith. He then tried to convince Preethi not to join. Said it was wrong of him to make the narrow path to narrow. That God is loving and forgiving and while in COW the focus was only on the wrath. It was a sin. He was ashamed. He was ashamed of his behavior and how he had treated people.
Lorayne-
Do you know if Chris Faulkner is ready to come out more publically to expose what has been happening?
Ex-members need healing time, processing time, and privacy. But at the same time, the ex-members are an important part of shedding light on abuse.
Very good important point, Keith.
People who’ve been there know what’s true and what isn’t. They can be critically helpful to others who are confused and conflicted.
Yes I was wondering the same thing, Keith. The more people we can get to expose the truth the better. Will pray for more exposure to happen soon.
Been there done that…tried. Those boys have quite a hold on those who have left. We have searched and searched to find very few who will speak. My conversation with Chris where I received that information was cut off after that and he desires no more contact. Something I have to respect. Others have reached out and not gotten that much. His FB is accessible, anyone is welcome to message him and ask. It can not hurt.
I found his testimony truthful. He was very sorrowful for his actions in COW at the end but maintained in the beginning it was much different. I truly pray God will move him to speak out and help. He could offer so much insight.
Others who have left, as I do not know his situation because he has never spoken about the situation, only told me how he felt. But others, I feel are in fear, emotionally scarred, and trying to just live and recover from the abuse. It would be like asking a woman to testify in court against her rapist. Very traumatic.
I hope Chris will come forward. I hope he will shed light. I hope he will call out these people who have called him a false prophet. I heard in his voice kindness and he told me he had forgotten our Lord was forgiving and loving and that was wrong. He was truly sorrowful.
If that is all true then God will move him to truly call out the false prophets. He will weep for those in Wells who are being held in fear they will die a horrible death if they leave. He can make a difference in this spiritual battle and I ask you all to pray he will do that.
Dear Keith,
Many factual errors:
– We attended your church from 1990 to 2013, 23 years, not 17 years
– When Chris visited us and met us for the first time, he told us that he left the Church of Wells and poisoned our mind against them, he also told us that God showed him the person he ought to marry (not Preethi)
– I did not ask Chris to be an elder, we really did not have a functioning church except Sunday meetings, they were powerful before Chris came
Love in Christ, Moses.
Why did Chris visit you? What made a guy from Texas travel to Minnesota to hang out with you and your family?
You didn’t just run into him at the grocery store and invite him home to dinner.
Moses, sounds like Chris bowed out of marrying your daughter fairly gently. DEFINITELY a woman scorned 🙁
Moses-
Thank you for the correction of 23 years. My mistake and I apologize. You have stated that you left your church after 23 years, not 17 years. (Someone warned me once that I might lose track of time after age 40)
However, I guess I just don’t understand how Chris Faulkner became an elder at your newly started church.
Here is a nice screen shot of when Chris Faulkner was listed on your website as an Elder.
http://i1314.photobucket.com/albums/t570/cowfam/faulkner.jpg?t=1381078887
Perhaps someone other than you must have asked him to be an elder. Perhaps someone other than you decided to list Chris Faulkner as an elder on your church website. Such a small church, with only one person running it… I don’t know who that could possibly have been. Maybe your website got hacked and someone was just playing a trick. Come on Moses. Of course you asked him to be an elder at your church. Now that was a blatant lie which I hope you will repent of.
Perhaps you would be willing to be more truthful.
I know that you became facebook friends with Chris Faulkner on May 31, 2013. But what about Preethi’s initial contacts with COW associated people? The thing is Moses… you are a parent. They don’t recruit parents. They recruit their kids. They spend months recruiting the kids. By the time the parents find out anything, the kids are literally ready to move across the country and join the church. You just like every parent were blindsided. Then you just like every parent gets overwhelmed with trying to sift through the mountains of information and the circular arguments. There is just not enough time to figure out what is happening and stop your kid from going. The parents don’t get recruited, they get scolded by their kids and by the COW elders.
Please share some details about how they recruited Preethi before you met any of them. It is ok to feel hurt, manipulated and taken advantage of. Join the club with all the other parents. You did not fail Preethi.
Note: Screen shot archive of what your website looked like is credited to someone from the faith.boardhost.com forum dedicated to parents trying to understand why their kids won’t talk to them anymore.
If anyone is reading this and needs a place to go with more historical information then go there.
Dear Keith,
Your speculation does not make me a liar. I will let you keep guessing how the webpage shows Chris to be an elder! Also, the Lord convicted me this morning that I should use my time to dwell in the glories of Christ (I have much to learn about Him) rather than participate in the gossip in this blog. I have tried earnestly to present the Church of Wells in a truthful light as I have come to discover them during the past several months, and I have strived with all of my heart to turn your hearts toward God, although imperfectly. My heart goes out to the distraught, disconnected, and sad parents, and it is my desire that they be reconciled with their children, and I will strive to push that from my end with their children because I take God’s command seriously that children honor their parents, and also acknowledge that this cannot be at the expense of their own walk with the Lord. It has been a privilege to dialogue with you, even though it has been painful! I love you all in Christ, and will be praying for you. Love in Christ, Moses.
Wow. Now that is a change of syntax.
So you are confronted with a factual picture of a website you created showing Chris an elder and instead of offering a reply you say Ill let you keep guessing. What a crock of COW poop.
Way to bow out of the blog. Bye Bye Moses. You finally got pushed into a corner you couldn’t get out of. Bottom line.
So, may we all remember his post so when future articles come up we will all just copy and paste this last post from him if he were to um, post and forget he has a better way to spend his time. Like maybe reading your boys books…you know he spent a year writing it. Much longer then he has known his wife.
Let us unite and no longer engage the Devil. Our time and energy is also much better spent. I appreciate everyone’s participation. There is a great forum on the Faith Board- let’s keep chatting among one another. Sharing. Talking.
Maybe admin will create a thread for us to correlate our name there to our name here- IF we want to cross reference.
In closing- ANYONE who wants to share and shine a light on this group. You may not think the information you have is anything special but I encourage you to call or email Mr. Hankins. He is still diligently researching and welcomes anyone who just wants to share their experience.
Pieces of a puzzle folks. Your piece may be insignificant to you but it matches up well with someone else’s from across the country. Please call!
you can go to FaceBook and search for Chris Faulkner and read his page just like you can the CoW. He is definitely more ‘normal’ and has many friends that all not all COW
Could that have been Sean or Preethi replying? Or maybe Sean or Preethi told Moses to say that.
I wouldn’t doubt if it’s Preethi. She seems like such a bully.
Just imagine living under the constant ‘righteous judgement’ of not ONLY your ‘elder’s and ‘deacon’s BUT your ‘brother and sisters’ and THEN their own children as they grow up in that environment. Whoa! That really creeps me out!
What an awful burden to carry! For those of you who know the Lord…you have the Holy Spirit who convicts you in His timing and He forgives and works repentance within you. He can work in the hearts of His children that they need to leave the CoW. He can show them that it is a LIE that they will die if they set their feet outside of the ‘fold’.
Faith.board.host show picture and R Trudeau “Out of Custody” Release 10/10/2014 Release by court order
Oy vey…another dangerous criminal back out on the streets.
“Moses David says:
October 14, 2014 at 6:09 pm
Dear Just Wondering, Yes, the time is running out….”
And once again I will ask you why you believe that time is running out, Mr. David. WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE COW’S PLANS? ARE THEY PLANNING TO PHYSICALLY HARM ANYONE???
I think he means that time is running out to repent of your sins before you go to hell. You know… your average fire and brimstone kinda warning.
If you believe in faith along by grace alone in Christ alone, then move along. Nothing to see here folks.
“And if it comes to it that some of us must die, if it is appointed to us by God’s sovereignty that the wrath of Wells Texas cannot be abated until some from the Church of Wells do suffer martyrdom, then so be it. What a privilege it would be to lay down our lives for the elect’s sake! God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, yes, and He will give more of His sons for you, dear people of Wells! God willing some of our number!
Our martyrdom may not be meritorious — NO! — but it is a testimony that the biblical Jesus Christ who died for you lives in us (2 Cor. 5:18-21), and He loves you enough to send you such men who are willing to tell you the hard truths of scripture, truths that men need to hear to be saved, and they are willing to seal it with their blood to testify of a God of LOVE! This is not because we are anything, but that Christ is in us, and loves you!”
This is an excerpt from a letter that was written by your son-in-law, Sean Morris, Mr. David. Do you really want your daughter to end up being a sacrificial lamb for the causes of a bunch of cult leaders? He spells it out in plain language, Moses!!! They are willing to die for their own nonsense! Do you even realize how delusional this group is? Are YOU willing to die for them? REMEMBER WACO!!! They have already killed one baby through their evil negligence. Who will be next?
For you, Sean. <3
Somewhere ‘round Texas, born and raised
Down at Baylor s’where he spent most of his days
Kickin’ out scripture, actin’ all cool,
And shootin’ some heresy all around school
When a couple of parents learned all the facts
Started causin’ trouble; they were on to his act
He got in one little fight, and it wasn’t so swell
He said “we’re moving with our stuff to a town called Wells!”
“[An elder] must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.” – 1 Timothy 3:7
“For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of man.” – 2 Corinthians 8:21
“Demetrius is well spoken of by everyone—and even by the truth itself. We also speak well of him, and you know that our testimony is true.” – 3 John 1:12
I added several comments that I thought important to keep as a reply to the previous comments. Search “October 16” to find all the comments posted today.
Thank you, Keith.
Keith,
Thank you for writing such a humble and touching post above which portrayed your interactions with the Davids. It truly seems that the David family was very instrumental in your church and that many looked up to him and his family. We can only hope and pray that God works in Moses’s heart to teach and convict him and show him that he has headed down a dangerous path of deception. We need to continue to pray for the destruction of COW and for the safety and healing of its members.
Yes, I want to thank Keith too. I know it took time to gather the information, thank you so much for the effort!
Moses ran and will offer no further comment…
So much for 1 Peter 3:15
…always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you
So much for Col. 4:6
Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.
I guess this is what being a “lantern under a bowl” looks like.
I will continue to pray for his eyes to be opened to the truth!
Still praying to receive some kind of communication … Moses never answered … Nor do any of the others …
Oh Moses isn’t coming back.
This response is typical for CoW members who perceive the outside to be persecuting them or at “level 5” status.
The verses they use to justify cutting off communication are Mark 6:11
And if any place will not welcome you or listen to you, leave that place and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them.
And Matthew 7:6
Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
We challenged him so much that I think he became overwhelmed. Hopefully he was overwhelmed by the truth and his own self-delusion. Though it may have chased him off, I think it’s for the best. While it is true that he may have used our commentary to feed his persecution complex, all of us on this board did a good job of standing our ground and presenting good facts and arguments. Now, he and the others will be (hopefully) forced back to place where they have an opportunity to open their eyes.
Moses: “I will let you keep guessing how the webpage shows Chris to be an elder”
The navigation tab and page title at the top that say “Elders” ?
Hi all,
Preethi just posted this. It’s funny how everything she is accusing these men of and all of us is exactly what COW are guilty of themselves and THEY don’t see it! They cut people out, they slander others, they judge, and they won’t accept counsel, but they think they are righteous in doing it. Haha, it’s also funny how the women are taught to be so soft spoken and quiet but yet they can do all the dirtywork of writing nasty emails and scolding others…. They are beyond reach and counsel…
http://proclaimedfromtherooftop.blogspot.com/2014/10/an-open-lament-of-wwwthechurchofwellsorg.html?m=1
Page taken down-apparently she overstepped her bounds! Preethie is getting a little too bold! Tisk risk.
*tisk (darn autocorrect)
Interesting… It’ll probably be re-worded and put back up……
Elder Preethi, Lord have mercy! (Or is it Prophet Preethi?)
Not only her husband, but poor Catherine has to deal with her too. I got a sense for Preethi in the videos taken during the protest. Phew! Don’t wanna tick off that woman. Why didn’t she take the Godly humble approach and stay quiet? No, instead she had to go to bat for all the elders by writing what must’ve amounted to a lot of time spent writing her latest blog post when she could’ve spent that time praying or reading her Bible. For shame.
Do we know if there are people warning the universities and schools and special events for COW people who are luring the students?
Sorry this was meant for everyone on this blog…
Guest-I know the school where my child came from is aware and warning students…
Oh that’s good.
Moses and the leaders of this group have an open invitation to post on the Faith forum. Their own reserved section. For purposes of greater understanding and perhaps to bridge the gap between the group’s beliefs and families.
http://faith.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=274
Thanks for the info Q!